tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post6230189651692782351..comments2024-03-24T20:02:50.012-07:00Comments on Bioethics Discussion Blog: Patient Dignity (Formerly:Patient Modesty):Volume 100Maurice Bernstein, M.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/07618638650784869923noreply@blogger.comBlogger175125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-30757098962611259112019-06-23T15:27:03.203-07:002019-06-23T15:27:03.203-07:00NOTICE: AS OF JUNE 23 2019 THERE WILL BE NO FURTHE...NOTICE: AS OF JUNE 23 2019 THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER COMMENTS POSTED ON THIS VOLUME. COMMENTS CAN NOW CONTINUE ON <a href="https://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2019/06/patient-dignity-formerlypatient.html" rel="nofollow">VOLUME 101</a>.<br />..Maurice.Maurice Bernstein, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07618638650784869923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-10785696404013961982019-06-23T08:06:06.892-07:002019-06-23T08:06:06.892-07:00JR said:
Found this article about how backwards I...JR said:<br /><br />Found this article about how backwards Indiana is: <br /><br />http://doctors.ajc.com/states/indiana_sex_abuse/?find_your_state The paragraph of interest is at the end under the Quoted section where it tells about what happened to a dr. convicted of having child porn. <br /><br />Apparently, in Indiana, drs. who have been convicted of child porn charges can retain their licenses bc of being committed to lifelong recovery. However, a private citizen who does not have deity credentials would face a longer prison term than 6 months, lose everything including their home and employment, have to stay around from minors forever including being near schools, etc, been on a list, etc. Look at Jared Fogle who is still in prison. Subway promptly fired him even before the allegations were proved. However, bc a man may be a dr. somehow he has magical powers to reform from such behavior when apparently non-medical people do not have their ability. Is it a DNA thing that dr. have in their biology that makes their ability not to be a pervert again? Are they born w/ it or is it an injection they receive at medical school only he didn't get all the boosters? Why is Indiana so stupid and backwards to think one type of profession can magically be cured when all others cannot be? Apparently, no one has told the medical profession there are no cures but at best temporary measures to ease severe afflictions and the tendency to be a pervert is not curable and certainly not when he is allowed to have free access to commit sexual crimes again. JRhttp://issues4thought.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-12857269591174752552019-06-23T07:51:45.061-07:002019-06-23T07:51:45.061-07:00JR said:
It is interesting that Mr. Kirschner is ...JR said:<br /><br />It is interesting that Mr. Kirschner is also older and his wife was a witness. It just goes to show they know no fear of being abusive because they have such a narcissistic or sociopathic frame of mind. For an clinic worker to call them saying if was just a "prank" showed how little concern they had for the sexual abuse they had committed. It would seem that to them explaining it was just a prank should have made it okay to have happened. I wonder how they decided to straw calls on the one who had to make the call. It really goes to prove Banterings' theory of the medical field being full of sociopaths and since they make the effort to blend in, you don't know you have one until something like this happens. It is sickening! Disgusting! I have a question though. When a female is sexually abused her identity is usually kept hidden. Did Mr. Kirschner decide to go public. My husband hasn't pressed charges as he does not feel he could withstand having something so vile that was done to him being made public with his face for everyone to see and make comments about as many will say it was his fault as he is a man, should have prevented it, and nurses don't do things like this. I read Mr. Kirschner is in counseling but how can he trust them is another question as you can never be quite sure what they are putting in your medical records? Is there some magic test to help decide if you will become a victim of sexual abuse by them? How can you be sure when you are not able to protect yourself that they won't abuse you? This happened in a doctor's office so what chance of not being molested do hospital patients have? This type of behavior probably occurs more than imagined at hospitals because they have more freedom to do this time of thing as the patients are made to be unaware and unable to prevent such abuse. It is indeed a scary world--the world of how healthcare is delivered. Why does it have to be such an ordeal would be the question I would like answered. JR<br /><br />JRhttp://issues4thought.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-84840401284111870232019-06-23T07:18:33.291-07:002019-06-23T07:18:33.291-07:00PT, there are no VIP cards. The designation is onl...PT, there are no VIP cards. The designation is only in the minds of the medical and/or patient participants. ..Maurice.Maurice Bernstein, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07618638650784869923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-65860000375685520002019-06-23T07:14:53.193-07:002019-06-23T07:14:53.193-07:00I think that the sexual misconduct in the Washingt...I think that the sexual misconduct in the Washington case is covered by the following from the NCSBN document:<b><i><br />2. Unnecessarily exposing a patient’s body<br />or watching a patient dress or undress,<br />unless for therapeutic purposes or the<br />patient specifically requests assistance.<br /><br /></i></b><br />The individual(s) who purposely set this order for "initiation" of a new member of the urology team should be investigated for unique misbehavior or, if this is a systematic order, the rationale for such system and unethical behavior be investigated. The events described in the news article represent wrong institutional behavior and should be emphasized and prevented for the future. ..Maurice.Maurice Bernstein, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07618638650784869923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-29598248670330088342019-06-23T04:35:30.178-07:002019-06-23T04:35:30.178-07:00Maurice
Why would a medical institution follow th...Maurice<br /><br />Why would a medical institution follow this document? They don’t even abide by their core values let alone know where they are.In your words would they as the patient view this document as some obscure guideline of some obscure supposed ethical setting “ that is in the eyes of the beholder.”<br /><br />When staff are terminated immediately, loss of license occurs and the facility is heavily fined and sued maybe just maybe will you get my attention.<br /><br />In the meantime can you see about getting us one of those fancy VIP cards.<br /><br />PTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-51921347809166924142019-06-23T04:12:14.195-07:002019-06-23T04:12:14.195-07:00Maurice
Worthless, absolutely worthless. Not wort...Maurice<br /><br />Worthless, absolutely worthless. Not worth the paper it’s written on. Did it benefit the patient abused by the Denver 5, what about the operating room staff of Dr Twana Sparks? Better yet, let’s elevate the stakes to arson, murder and gross negligence.<br /><br />The nurse who violated the 10 rights to safe medication administration and killed her patient still has her license. The nurse who was an accomplice in the murder of his ex-wife still has her license. The nurse who had sex with the inmate under her care attempted to get him released from prison, killed her husband and burned their house down to cover the evidence still has her license.<br /><br />Do you think we are going to be swayed, regain confidence in the medical industry by some article you pulled out of a dusty corner of the web written by some clueless nurses somewhere. We have seen and read that worthless crap and it’s such an embarrassment to some bon’s across the country that they have actually blotted out the disciplinary page completely. <br /><br />PT<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-30602426755051603632019-06-23T04:01:52.294-07:002019-06-23T04:01:52.294-07:00That booklet is a wealth of info Dr. Bernstein, th...That booklet is a wealth of info Dr. Bernstein, though interestingly in the 4 case examples they gave, the offending nurse in 3 cases was a male and in the 4th it was a female nurse responding to sexual solicitation from a male patient. Apparently it doesn't occur to them that female nurses are capable of independently committing sexual misconduct. <br /><br />What happened to Mr. Kirschner in Olympia would fall in the lower end of their misconduct scenarios with the suggested penalty basically being re-training and monitoring for a period of time. <br /><br />I worked for a highly ethical corporation for 40 years where ethical misconduct would get you promptly fired. They'd work long and hard to re-train and mentor those with job performance issues, but had no tolerance for bad behavior. Lie, cheat, steal, or engage in other gross misconduct and you'd be gone that day. Over the years I fired far more people for bad behavior than I ever did for poor performance. Our strong ethical base always striving to do the right thing dealing with employees, customers, and community served us well in attracting and retaining high quality staff. The way I see it, if Olympia Urology tolerates that kind of behavior (as evidenced by nobody being fired), what other ethical lapses do they tolerate? Were I a physician or nurse it is not the kind of place I'd want to work. Bikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14337739874615826612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-46697479650672150702019-06-23T00:18:54.214-07:002019-06-23T00:18:54.214-07:00PT,
In reaching out to Mr. Kirschner, please advi...PT,<br /><br />In reaching out to Mr. Kirschner, please advise him to consider contacting his elected officials to press for legislation. He is elderly, and a sex abuse victim, 2 areas that deserve special attention when it comes to protective legislation. He is in a unique position to bring about change. <br /><br />58flyer 58flyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05572295552265218310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-14468966179290711212019-06-22T22:00:19.717-07:002019-06-22T22:00:19.717-07:00Oh my! There should be no excuses or explanations ...Oh my! There should be no excuses or explanations of the obvious---it is all there, all there.. in writing.. by the National Council of State Boards of Nursing 2009. It's all there..all there.. everything but everything that can be looked upon as misconduct, mismanagement and worse by the nursing profession. And it is all there in black and white and blue text. No ifs, ands or buts. No way the nursing profession can twist and turn an explanation. And it is all very detailed and there is no excuse by nursing in any institution which can be made with a rational explanation. And the impact of this "professional" misbehavior is clearly defined:<br /><b><i>"EXTENT OF THE PROBLEM<br />In NCSBN’s analysis of 10 years of Nursys® data (NCSBN, 2009), 53,361 nurses were disciplined; of those,<br />636, or 0.57 percent, were included in the following categories: sexual misconduct, sex with client, sexual<br />abuse, sexual language or sexual boundaries. Therefore, sexual misconduct is not a common complaint<br />to a BON. The actual prevalence, however, is not known. Indeed, 38 to 52 percent of health care professionals report knowing of colleagues who have been sexually involved with patients (Halter et al., 2007).<br />The impact of sexual misconduct on patients is serious. The Council for Health Care Regulatory Excellence (2008) cite the following disorders and complaints as being resultant of sexual misconduct by a<br />health care provider to a patient/client:<br /> Post-traumatic stress disorder and distress;<br /> Major depressive disorder;<br /> Suicidal tendencies and emotional distrust;<br /> High levels of dependency on the offending professional;<br /> Confusion and dissociation;<br /> Failure to access health services when needed;<br /> Relationship problems;<br /> Disruption to employment and earnings; and<br /> Use and misuse of prescription (and other) drugs and alcohol.</i></b><br /><br />Please, everyone, go to this link and read the presentation in whole:<br /><br /><a href="https://www.ncsbn.org/Sexual_Misconduct_Book_web.pdf" rel="nofollow"> https://www.ncsbn.org/Sexual_Misconduct_Book_web.pdf</a><br /><br />It's all there... including page after page on how to handle the misbehavior or worse along with case examples. NO EXCUSES possible unless an institution has failed to read or followup on this document. It's all there. No excuses! ..Maurice.<br />Maurice Bernstein, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07618638650784869923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-14583941500690330992019-06-22T19:51:39.375-07:002019-06-22T19:51:39.375-07:00PT,
Please feel to pass on to Mr Kirschner both m...PT,<br /><br />Please feel to pass on to Mr Kirschner both my <a href="https://twitter.com/MadmanBantering" rel="nofollow">Twitter</a> and <a href="http://madmanbanterings.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">my blog</a> as there is research to validate the trauma he suffered and the fact that healthcare providers should be aware that PTSD is a side effect of such actions.<br /><br />I am sure that his attorney will be interested with that along with the information on this blog.<br /><br /><br /><br />-- Banterings<br /><br /><br />A. Banteringshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05026455474056909739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-58534080540300501402019-06-22T19:44:47.960-07:002019-06-22T19:44:47.960-07:00This behavior at the Urology clinic only affirms t...This behavior at the Urology clinic only affirms the culture, the feministic behavior so dominant in healthcare today. How many times do you think this occurs at Urology clinics or other healthcare facility? Is this case only obvious because it made the news? How many don’t make the news. If only he was a VIP this never would have happened. If you have a VIP card, don’t leave home without it.<br /><br /><br />It took a month to respond to this patient’s complaint, is that appropriate? From the video you see they documented by registered mail letters to the board. But this is the kind of care you get when you pay into a system that costs $4 Trillion annual dollars. This patient was paying their salaries and this is how he was treated, the object of a prank, initiation. You get what you pay for.<br /><br />PT<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-56909058508786458662019-06-22T18:30:16.984-07:002019-06-22T18:30:16.984-07:00Biker
Maybe the doctors hands were tied by the fac... Biker<br />Maybe the doctors hands were tied by the fact that he or she knew about the prank in advance and went along with it.<br /> The staff couldn't very well be dislipined then. To me that makes as much sense as anything. Most staff don't take actions in front of supervisors that they know they're allowed to do, or even suspect they're not allowed to do. But this doctor walked in to find a totally naked and undraped patient?<br /> JFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-39158783899925109902019-06-22T18:12:55.899-07:002019-06-22T18:12:55.899-07:00Biker, a "mischievous act" has no place ...Biker, a "mischievous act" has no place in medical practice where a patient is involved and not fully and knowingly and accepting the role of a participant (a rare exception). A "mischievous act" has no place in medical education when a patient is involved under the same circumstances. Pranks directed at the patient or directed at anyone participating in the care and attention to a patient has no ethical support. There must be a significant penalty applied to those who suggest or participate in such behavior so it is clear to all professionals that such behavior is unprofessional and in fact may leave permanent damage, physical or psychological upon the patient. I hope this Comment makes my opinion clear. ..Maurice. Maurice Bernstein, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07618638650784869923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-70832660833823568502019-06-22T17:21:43.057-07:002019-06-22T17:21:43.057-07:00Biker
I appreciate you finding this article and b...Biker<br /><br />I appreciate you finding this article and bringing it to the attention of the readers of this blog. I am reaching out to Mr Kirschner and will ask him to join us on this blog. Additionally, I want him to share with us what action, if any his attorney will be taking against the medical facility provided that he is willing to discuss the matter.<br /><br />PTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-84312030917965413772019-06-22T17:09:30.381-07:002019-06-22T17:09:30.381-07:00JR said:
At least this victim got the acknowledgm...JR said:<br /><br />At least this victim got the acknowledgment that something happened. Too many times like in our case, it is not acknowledged. I don't believe it was a prank as why would it be a prank to a staff who deals with the male genital region as part of their ordinary job. It was only a prank on the victim and that type of behavior to victimize a patient is not what I consider to be a prank. What they did to my husband was entertainment because there was really no other reason for it and considering the laughter I heard and what he remembers hearing. They thought it was funny to leave him uncovered and cold so his anatomy could react especially considering he had just had a heart attack. Some people get nervous when I liken what he felt like as he felt as he were being raped and unable to prevent it from happening because of the administration of the date rape drug. For this young man and all the other men who have suffered from this type of sick "entertainment", the pain and suffering will never go away or even lessen. That this young man had already been a victim of sexual abuse makes me just want to cry for him and I don't know him but I cry for him, others, and my husband. They will probably find out this is a "common prank" done in this office by those sociopathic females. But to them, a patient being naked is not a big deal unless it is them or their loved one. Abusing a patient is no big deal unless it would be done to them or someone they love. Indeed, they would be the first to cry foul. This is type of behavior is why Banterings works so hard to get the message out there and why I too am trying. Something has to change because becoming a patient should not automatically qualify you in becoming a victim of medical or sexual assault. I have posted some new articles on my blog at Issues4Thought that talk about the lack of patient protection. There really is no one or anything that protects patients. It is beyond horrible to think protection is only extended to medical providers but not their patient victims. JRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-7445902388922577242019-06-22T15:49:58.437-07:002019-06-22T15:49:58.437-07:00Dr. Bernstein, when you were in practice for yours...Dr. Bernstein, when you were in practice for yourself, if any of your staff pulled a "prank" such as occurred at the urology practice in Olympia, would you have fired the perpetrators? I am asking given the under-reaction on the part of the people in charge in this case. Are those managers outliers in not thinking actions of that nature rise to the level of termination? Or are they in the mainstream thinking what those women did wasn't that big a deal? I say they didn't think it was such a big deal given the rather lukewarm apology the victim got and the fact that nobody has been fired. <br /><br />Fast forwarding to your present role as a med school professor, if any of your students pulled a "prank" like this, would you seek to get them tossed from the school? If you did, would the school agree with you and toss them? <br /><br />As an aside I put "prank" in parentheses in that this choice of words is perhaps purposeful so as to minimize what really happened and make it all seem so innocent and trivial rather than the malicious act it was. It staggers the mind to think that those women thought this was an OK thing to do to a patient as a form of entertainment for themselves. Bikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14337739874615826612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-27634296288275243922019-06-22T07:57:57.284-07:002019-06-22T07:57:57.284-07:0058flyer, my presumption is that nobody was fired. ...58flyer, my presumption is that nobody was fired. I didn't see the phrase "is no longer with us" anywhere. Male staff doing the same to a female patient would have been fired on the spot. Yet again we see the double standard at work. <br /><br />That nobody was fired speaks to the clinic itself and their corporate masters not seeing what happened as a big deal. It was just an exposed male childhood sexual abuse victim is all. There are always going to be bad apples amongst the millions of healthcare workers. The larger problem is the acceptance of egregious violations such as this example by the people who run these health practices. How they could not see this as a termination level event defies credulity. Bikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14337739874615826612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-80814751542311567932019-06-22T07:52:36.347-07:002019-06-22T07:52:36.347-07:0058Flyer, Biker
The family has retained an attorn...58Flyer, Biker<br /><br /><br />The family has retained an attorney. Hmmm, I see opportunities here for our cause.<br /><br /><br />PTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-46356416010303538462019-06-21T22:35:41.483-07:002019-06-21T22:35:41.483-07:00This situation in Washington shows what you can ge...This situation in Washington shows what you can get when unlicensed or minimally qualified females have unfettered access to male patients. I bet that if they were required to have a male chaperone present the whole thing would not have happened. <br /><br />I have to wonder what the doctor thought when he/she came into the room to find an undraped patient. Maybe the doctor was in on the prank. I checked the Providence website and they do show 2 female urologists in the practice so it wouldn't surprise me. <br /><br />I do hope that the promised corrections included those 2 medical assistants finding new work, at the very least. <br /><br />Thanks for posting, Biker.<br /><br />58flyer58flyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05572295552265218310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-62791853727935284012019-06-21T19:30:57.829-07:002019-06-21T19:30:57.829-07:00Maurice
Oh, I see. Therefore when facilities hide...Maurice<br /><br />Oh, I see. Therefore when facilities hide their core values or they don’t stand behind or give value to their core values then what you are suggesting is that we, the patient make up our own? That is an interesting concept! I could say that the employee has intregity only because they showed up for work today because the patient is paying their salary. I never looked at it from that perspective. <br /><br />PTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-60775473939548055602019-06-21T18:50:52.818-07:002019-06-21T18:50:52.818-07:00PT, what "ethical setting" are you sugge...PT, what "ethical setting" are you suggesting? An "ethical setting" is really in the eyes of the beholder. ..Maurice.Maurice Bernstein, M.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07618638650784869923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-12233035124113882932019-06-21T18:35:18.462-07:002019-06-21T18:35:18.462-07:00Biker, PT, Maurice, ,
This is how you deal with t...Biker, PT, Maurice, ,<br /><br />This is how you deal with this situation. You hit them where they are pushing their core values say “ compassion, dignity, justice, excellence, integrity: on THEIR social media. <br /><br />I responded on THEIR own Twitter account:<br /><br /><a href="https://twitter.com/ProvidenceNW/status/1132011562372345856" rel="nofollow"><i>Congratulations to Melissa Ebben, RN for receiving the 2019 #Nurse Innovator Award! She is a true #inspiration with her innovative ideas to improve the care of #victims of crime and #sexualassault. </i></a><br /><br /><b>SEE MY COMMENT BELOW</b><br /><br />Another person on Twitter criticizes Providence Healthcare System:<br /><br /><a href="https://twitter.com/buker1424/status/1141091799940792320" rel="nofollow"><i>@PSJH the one result from a search of "LGBT" in 4 years of Prov health news stories is an article about the Holocaust. https://www.psjhealth.org/news/search-results?keyword=LGBT … … You won't celebrate Pride month nor include LGBT people in your Nondiscrimination notice. http://providence.org What's up with that?</i></a><br /><br /><b>AGAIN, SEE MY COMMENT BELOW</b><br /><br /><br /><a href="https://twitter.com/MadmanBantering/status/1142161471423623168" rel="nofollow">Then I share the story on my Twitter feed</a> with my hashtags ( #MeToo #DoctorsAbuseToo #NursesAbuseToo #DoctorsAreDickheads #PatientChoice #NeedTo #sexualassault #PatientAbuse ).<br /><br />The more they try to promote how caring they are on social media, the more that I pop up and give a reality check. <br /><br />Those who point out their hypocrisy, I throw gasoline on that fire.<br /><br /><br /><b>THIS IS HOW YOU CHANGE THE SYSTEM! YOU MAKE A PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE THAT NEVER GOES AWAY!</b><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />-- Banterings<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />A. Banteringshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05026455474056909739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-53636596664666136372019-06-21T15:01:42.212-07:002019-06-21T15:01:42.212-07:00On their website their core values say “ compassi...On their website their core values say “ compassion, dignity, justice, excellence, intregity. Can anyone who is a medical ethicist explain to me what these words mean in an ethical setting?<br /><br />PTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7571658.post-12010570272351189872019-06-21T10:00:38.926-07:002019-06-21T10:00:38.926-07:00I came across this article about a urology clinic ...I came across this article about a urology clinic in Olympia, WA that purposely left a male patient fully exposed for an extended amount of time as part of an initiation prank for a new employee. It doesn't appear that there were any serious consequences for the staff involved. Sadly the patient in question was a sex abuse survivor and was severely traumatized as a result of the staff getting their kicks at his expense. <br /><br />https://www.king5.com/article/news/investigations/disturbing-staff-behavior-investigated-at-providence-clinic-in-olympia/281-e2333b8a-bcd3-4e28-ab00-043a01f684c9<br /><br />It appears nobody got fired and nobody is losing their license over this. Bikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14337739874615826612noreply@blogger.com