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"I Hate Doctors": Chapter 3
This Leonardo da Vinci masterpiece I think is fitting to the introduction of a bit of a twist I would like to introduce in the "I Hate Doctors" commentaries which has been going on in the previous two chapters. I would like to offer my visitors two possibilities which might lead to the "I hate doctors" expressions that have been repeatedly written on this thread.
One is: Doctors consider themselves Gods and behave in that way upsetting many patients.
The other is: Some patients consider the doctors as Gods and then are greatly disappointed when they turn out by their behavior or perhaps outcomes not to be Gods.
What do you think? ..Maurice.
103 Comments:
"I hope you can find a way to get past your anger and move on with your life"
Don't bet on it.
These forced "Routine" genital exams on children traumatizes a lot of children and any pediatrician who willingly puts a child through that trauma is a child abuser.
That's it I'm done!
AL
The examples posted here involving children (or really anyone) are horrible: I think there is no denying it. What we are left and confused with is what to do about it.
Knowing we can't turn back time, the only choice is to move forward. But ( I know) there is no definitive structure available to get immediate satisfaction. It seems things are going to take a little time.
Now if (treading lightly here) one chooses to seek emotional support, it is not because they are crazy or it didn't and shouldn't have happened. It is more likely that (for some) the pressure building up just needs to be vented somehow.
**But MAINLY, these situations need a paper trail. You can not prove anything if nothing is ever reported. How effective would it become if a therapist/ analist/ counselor/ Doctor/ compiled enough data to say "We have an alarming and growing problem we need to fix"?
Documentation is and will always be the biggest power tool toward change.
If people can 'deal' with damage on their own then great. Personal stregnth is inspiring.If they want to see it stop then we all need to talk. I, for one, am hoping things can change.
Anonymous wrote the following today to "I Hate Doctors" Chapter 1 which is now closed for further comments. I, therefore, will publish it here. ..Maurice.
The last time I went to the doctor, I was urinating blood and my back hurt. This had been going off and on for a week. The doctor ran the usual tests, and then sent me for a CAT scan, which cost me a fortune. Everything came back normal, except there was blood in my urine and I had lost 7 pounds in ten days. I asked the doctor what was the next step, assuming there would be something else they would do. Instead, he suggested I see a psychologist because back pain is often a symptom of mental health issues. I asked if he really thought that therapy would address the blood in my urine. (By the way, I wasn't asking for meds.) He was taken aback that I would dare insult him like that, then told me he did agree there was something wrong, he just didn't know what it was and didn't have anything else to offer me. Had he told me that, instead of that it was "in my head," I would probably still be seeing doctors today.
p.s.- My own comment: If a doctor is unsure or has no idea of what is the diagnosis, there is always some professional which the patient can be referred to who does. ..Maurice.
There are countless drug seeking
patients in emergency rooms who
hate physicians and nurses when
they don't get their meds. These
kinds of patients hate themselves
even worse!
PT
I don’t “hate” doctors. That’s far too strong a word. I dislike some of them for being so pessimistic, for not allowing hope to work along side science and good medical practice. Sometimes the body can heal itself, sometimes it needs some help from the medical community, and sometimes the body does not get better. But the wise doctor is one who applies what he/she knows and will admit that sometimes they don’t know or might be even be wrong.
The link below is about people who have recovered from comas after the medical community has pronounced 'They're not going to wake up, and they've already lived their lives, so how about we disconnect them from all the machinery?' It is clear that only the love and care of the coma victim’s family kept them alive. Now does every coma have a happy ending with full recovery? No, of course not, but some do make it, so don’t be in such a hurry to pull the plug, ok?
http://www.nrlc.org/news/2001/NRL10/coma.html
Instead, he suggested I see a psychologist because back pain is often a symptom of mental health issues.
If I had a dollar for every story I heard like this. It is amazing how often a physician's failure or lack of willingness to pursue a correct diagnosis results in the "It's all in your head" label. This is particularly common with people complaining of pain. Many doctors seem to feel if they can't personally figure out what's wrong then either there is either nothing wrong (the patient is malingering or drug-seeking) or it's something psychological. No one seems to question how blatantly unscientific or dangerous this mindset is or the negative results it can be expected to have on the patient's health and well-being. The belief in stress and phantom psychosomatic disorders as the causative factor for all manner of diverse problems and symptoms is firmly entrenched in the medical profession.
Indeed, the belief in the power of psychosomatic disorders has come to fill the role played by the Devil or bad bile in medieval medicine: an all purpose culprit that can be invoked in any situation where he doctor hasn't got a clue or can't be bothered to search for one. The ignorance is the same, the only difference being the presumption underlying it, and the degree of moral judgment that often goes along with a psychiatric diagnosis for pain. In the Middle Ages, no one blamed you for being possessed by demons or having bad bile. Now, being allegedly overwhelmed by stress to the point you are believed to suffer from all manner of physical disorders is seen as a sign of poor character on your part, rather than with appalling medical ignorance on the part of doctors.
Any time you get the "it's all in your head" speech rest assured you are dealing with a judgmental quack and should consider it a sure sign you need to take your medical demons somewhere else for exorcism
An anonymous visitor wrote the following to the now closed first volume of "I Hate Doctors". I will post it below. ..Maurice.
Part of our problem is that we put too much trust into strangers, that are, in the end, just human. The other part of our problem is we put these people on a pedestal, which leads to their arrogance and sense of superiority...which leads to them not listening to their patients, etc. I would have gained more health learning how to eat, at a young age, than I ever did visiting any doctor. Instead they used junk science to recommend low-fat/high-carb diets, then made money, along with pharmaceutical companies, treating our "illnesses". I'll never see another doctor again, unless I'm dragged, unconscious, to the ER. My wife's a nurse, and I'll take a nurse over a doctor, to treat me, any day. As for the rest of my life, self-reliance, and self-education will be my battle cry.
Here is a posting from "Opting Out" who wrote to the now closed first volume of "I Hate Doctors" 2 days ago. I will post it below. ..Maurice.
Thank you for not closing this thread. From the look of it, years of frustrated and angry patients have googled "I hate doctors" and found this site. I know it's worthless venting, writing in this box, none of it matters but maybe I will feel better. And no one has to read this. As for me, I don't want to hate doctors. Why would I? Many are smart and all are well-educated. And if you are sick, naturally you want to like your doctor. It makes treatment easier, makes it more likely you can open up and talk to your doctor. Of course, I accept that it's not necessary to like my doctor, respect is enough. If my doctor is trustworthy and I believe s/he is trying to help me, nothing else matters. And I need them. I'm sick and I need a doctor. I can't run my own tests or prescribe my own medicines, so it doesn't help me to hate doctors. What would help me is if I could trust a doctor. Of course that's the problem, it's hard to trust doctors when they lie to you. Even when it's going to hurt, isn't it better to be told the truth rather than to be unprepared? I'm an adult and I have a right to know so I can prepare in my own way. This is a small way in which trust begins to erode. It's so much worse when you're really ill and you need your doctors and you can't afford to piss them off. You are helpless in a sense and you just have to take it. I'm writing this because I want medical professionals to understand that this is the breeding ground for these emotions. Sick, hurting, helpless, betrayed, it all leads to "I hate doctors". And we don't start out wanting to hate doctors. I don't want to hate doctors and especially not my doctors, but after multiple occasions of doctors giving me bad information, lying or pain, pain which you later discover could have been minimized or treated, it's hard not to feel some of that "I hate "doctors". Maybe, not all of them but the ones who won't treat me as a human being. All I really want is to be told and to understand and for someone to treat me with respect and minimize my pain. That is all. You start out feeling a little abused by one bad situation, then before you know it, you don't trust any of them and you just wish you could treat yourself or if that fails just die somewhere with as little pain as possible. Opting Out
So many doctors are ill equipped to treat diseases of Western civilization. Hard to say if they’ve all bought into a drug for everything mentality but they most def do not know how to bring sick people to wellness. Most doctors want to continually "poison" us with drugs that most definitely injure the mitochondria causing even more unwellness.
And the kicker is that they scoff at any methods that don’t include their toxic drugs! I was injured terribly by doctors because I became ill with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome before it was a “real” disease. The majority of doctors reading here will also scoff and deny my overwhelming and disabling suffering saying it’s “in my head.”
Ok then I gave you scoffers almost 20 years and you almost killed me. Then I saw the light and realized that if I didn’t escape this madness I was going to die the most hideous death not to mention continue to live in utter agony. It took years for me to get over the excruciatingly painful withdrawal from their drugs and get healthy using those tsk tsk “alternative” methods.............and the right mix of replacement hormones I received from a doctor who wanted to heal me, not keep me in the vortex of continual damaging destruction of CNS killing drugs.
Recently I saw my GP and he tried to talk me into taking Lyrica for some joint pain. Fascinating that all those years “nothing was wrong with me,” but now that there are DRUGS TO PRESCRIBE, I have an illness that there is no cure, and they want to further injure me with drugs. I was so distressed and thought, “REALLY?” after I spent years healing my CNS from those chemicals you REALLY want to do that to me again? (oh and if I were to mention that Lyrica is a terrible medication with horrific side effects and withdrawal that is worse than heroin I would be scoffed at and told “no, no, no, Lyrica isn’t addicting blah, blah”).
Thank God I know how to manage my own care/health/healing now, but I’m horrified that others are going through what I went through. Psyche drugs are the worst too, but useful for everything! Imagine, if you’re at home, incapacitated with illness, pain, and suffering, let’s make that 100,000 times worse and keep you coming back for more with addictive life and health killing drugs!!!!
So I’m vehement about this, like so many others who’ve posted here, if you’ve been tortured it’s hard not to feel angry. But now I’m going to hypnotherapy so that I can deal with my rage. I see the doctors like terrorists, they hurt me terribly but I won’t give them any more of my life.
Please doctors look at what you’re doing.
No, they won't look at what they're doing, sadly. What worries (and enrages me) is the misguided loyalty they have towards their own kind. The problem is also that the patient often keeps trusting the physician even in the face of prejudices about ethnic origin, class, gender, sexual orientation y trust in them was permanently eroded, because they smiled at meand even dismissal or downright abuse. But the worst is that, as soon as you challenge them on even the smallest thing, they take personally. And heaven helps you if they get cross with you, they mark your file with "difficult" "non-compliant", or even get a physiciatric diagnosis such as neurosis or pshychosis and that gets set in stone, because it will influence the judgement of all others after that. You may even be denied insurance as well.
I read every post on this three part 'I hate doctors' blog. I could relate to just about every one of them in some way or another. I found reading this very helpful and it made me see that there is a whole army of us out here that think that these people called 'doctors' are not even close to being decent people. Last year alone in the news there was the 'craigslist killer', and the 'fort hood shooter' both doctors who just plain got up off their ass and killed people like many of the rest of the closet killers who are doctors only WISHED they could do. I think the profession attracts weird mentally unstable people who find that they fit in well with the other doctors in training. I suspect that many people start med school and find that they 'don't fit in' and it's not for them, and those people are probably the decent people and the stable doctors. All to many of the rest of them are mere thugs and bullies and someone said that they were like a 'gang' and that's not hard to imagine.
What a shame that this is the reality here in American and it's still more of the shame that there are doctors writing in on here saying they hate their patients. That's so unprofessional. I would never say that outloud and one would have to ask themselves what kind of person would be in that profession and then act so childish. Medical schools need to weed out the 'nut job' med students and try and attract more balanced people to their ranks. It's not good enough to get all the nut jobs together and then say 'well they are all the same'.. Well hell, all psychotic people are the same too because they see things, but that don't make them sane!!
lynnzy said:
"Medical schools need to weed out the 'nut job' med students and try and attract more balanced people to their ranks."
How would you propose they do that? As with every profession, a psychopath or two is going to slip by. They have a handy little trait of 'fitting in', and only some of us are mindreaders.
swf
Imagine if you took your car to a mechanic and said, "Something is not right, it pulls to the left and it makes a weird clunking sound when it shifts from second to third gear."
Your mechanic makes some notes and tell you to come back in three days. You return, he won't tell you what he thinks is wrong, that he needs to run some more tests.
"How much is this going to cost? How long will it take?" Your mechanic says he doesn't know. You're left sitting in horribly uncomfortable chair for hours and hours, worrying about your car.
Then, the mechanic comes back, tells you they aren't sure what it is, but it could be problems with the transmission. Except he uses words and phrases you don't understand, he won't let you see the tests and he and his staff make secret notes about you and your car. He can't tell you how much it will cost, how long it will take, when you will expect to get your car back, if it will ever run right again -- NOTHING.
You wouldn't put up with this from your mechanic, why would you put up with it from your doctor?
Medicine has established a new priesthood and the doctors are at the center of it. Those of us who can see through the charade have learned to distrust doctors, and rightly so.
--Leslie
"These forced "Routine" genital exams on children traumatizes a lot of children and any pediatrician who willingly puts a child through that trauma is a child abuser"
Don't forget school nurses that insist on watching all the athletes getting their worthless hernia checks. Their presence is NEVER necessary, but they insist on watching anyway.
"My wife's a nurse, and I'll take a nurse over a doctor, to treat me, any day."
Nurses are absolutely worthless. They are the worst part of the medical "business". They think they know everything but in reality all they do is piss off the patients, especially the patients who believe in morality and ethics.
I like the "mechanic" example, but don't forget the part about how the mechanic possibly figured out the problem and so he sends it to his clueless and unqualified assistants who end up screwing it up even worse.
Anonymous wrote the following today on the now closed first chapter of "I Hate Doctors". ..Maurice.
"I moved to the BIG CITY because of the economy. I had a handful of Dr. to chose from in the small town I came from. I had a great PA that listened to me. While moving my bladder dropped from picking up boxes. I didn't know thats what it was so I went to the DR. a PA. She was nice. As soon as I go into a Dr.'s office my BP shots up. It did at this Dr. she checked it again before I left and it went back down. She could really tell what dropped so she sent me to hernia Dr. and wanted me to do labs for my meds refil. I went to the hernia Dr. BP high again! No worries he said. He said it was my bladder but go to a GYN OK! Off to the GYN! My BP is high again. It's fear I know it they scare the crap out of me and by now I'm really sick of them for sure. She says its your bladder exercise will help. Wlaks away saying I need to see an internist. Ok! She supposed to be real nice according to the nurse. I went. BP was sky high. I refused to hear how high it was. In comes the Dr. I love her hair and told her so. She says are you taking your meds? Yes. It's inderol. I guess she asked that because my BP was so High. I could feel it was high. I was scared to DEATH. I told her that. She didn't CARE. My Cholestoral is borderline high. I had the first PA tell me it was High and to take meds. I told her it was higher and I would watch my diet. She said my Viatimin D was low. I said I'll sit in the sun. My thyroid is to low. I went to speacialist for that and he said it's doing a good job for what it's having to do. No meds. She would of had me on 3 different meds if I would of let her. I tell this new Dr. all this stuff. She says, your ldl is to high, your thyroid is bad, your BP is high. You smoke and your dad died of a massive heart attack at 46. You have 5 risk factors for a heart attack! Bull she didn't listen to me at all. She listened to my heart and lungs said hose sound good. While she was doing that I was nervous. I said jokingly maybe I just need some Xanax. She is so mad at me for explaining my diet, my visit to the hormone Dr, and my fear of the Dr and BP. She scareams at me and says. I'M YOUR DOCTOR! YOU WILL DO WHAT I TELL YOU TO DO! Well then. She wants blood work done. No fasting first. DUH! You don't do cholestoral test without fasting. She orders me to take a statin. She also ordered Xanax. She didn't listen to me because I never got a chance to tell her I was a recovering drug addict (Xanax) thats why the inderol. And recovering alcoholic. 16 years sober and not one drug other thn the drug to fix the drug that screwed me up in the first place. She will never see me again. They DO NOT LISTEN. Even the DR I like in my old home town didn't hear I was a drug addict alcoholic. I had to tell her everytime I went in there. They need to put it in HUGE RED LETTERS ON THE FRONT PAGE. They won't they want to kill me with there drugs. Needless to say I won't go back to either one of them but I have to do soemthing and try to not be afraid when I go. LOL "
I haven't had very good luck with doctors in the town where I'm presently living. I snapped my ACL playing basketball and the surgean I went to was incompetent and had a terrible attitude. I suffered through his rudeness and had surgery on my knee. Apparently he decided to saw off part of a bone to use as a ligament, and the area he sawed now has a calcium deposit the size of a golf ball. He sent me two days later to a physical therapist who pulled and bent my knee until I had tears in my eyes. Three months later the arrogant surgean checked it again and said it didn't take. He blamed me for it and accused me of walking around without my brace on, which wasn't true. Either he screwed up or the therapist that stretched the heck out of it two days later did.
I visited a different surgean but he told me I should stick with the first one since he knew everything about the first surgery. The first guy refused to admit he screwed up and charged me another $15,000 for the next surgery, which surprisingly my insurance payed for. He used a donor ligament this time and the surgery went well, but I never visited him or the therapist again.
Twice I've been sent from my job to get x-rays on my extremely painful wrist, and both times I was told it was either in my head or I'm lying to get out of work.
I went to a different doctor to talk with him about my terrible depression and he refused to talk about it. He gave me a prescription for a sleep aid and told me all I needed was a good nights sleep.
Even a dentist I went to bore a large hole in my jaw into my sinus cavity while extracting a couple of teeth and wouldn't take responsibility for it. Now I have sinus infection draining straight into my mouth and down my throat every day. If you're not familiar with how sinus infection tastes, it's just like the smell of a decomposing body. Every day for over four years now because they consider it a dental problem and my insurance won't cover it.
I guess that's what I get for living in Utah, in a town full of wanna-be Mormons and backwards hillbillies.
I hate doctors, I don't need their help at all, i'd rather die out of a disease than go to a doctor to treat me! Doctors are liars! Everytime you go to them they will make you believe you have millions of diseases just to rip you off! This is a story I know:
There was a guy that had a pain in his stomach, he went to the doctor the doctor told him it's better to operate your stomach than to take drugs to fix it... The doctor took 14000$ for the operation, after that it finished the body caught up a virus and the patient died on hospital, the investigation crew came to discover the reason of death, the doctor infected him due to lack of sterilization and it turned out that the doctor didn't operate a thing, he just opened his stomach and closed it again to make it look like operated.. So you tell me this is a doctor?
Well yeah that's how doctors are here in Lebanon - Middle East
No wonder why I hate them so much.. All of them are like that ALL OF THEM, I know many similar stories!
Anonymous wrote the following to the now closed first chapter thread of "I Hate Doctors" thus it was not published there. ..Maurice.
I'm a PA. I trained alongside DO and MD students during my clinical rotations in school. I really don't believe that med schools, preceptors, or mentors are doing anything wrong or could do any better. I rarely met a student with a poor bedside manner or one who was narrow-minded. They're almost all naturally empathetic and willing to consider a wide range of possibilities in their differential diagnosis... but usually don't need to because when someone presents with common symptoms of a common disease, they make that common diagnosis. They are often disheartened when their attending dismisses the patient's symptoms and the student's suggested (and likely correct) diagnosis, and just says "it's nothing" or "it's all in their head". Students are empathetic, polite, respectful, and go out of their way to help or offer support or suggestions (even when nobody who's grading them is watching). Residents are pretty similar to students. They listen to the facts, try to please, and go with what makes sense. They also attempt to work with the patient to try to get a plan that both parties agree with, even if that takes some persuasion and compromise. Unfortunately, poor attitudes seem to be the result of time and experience. I don't believe you can attribute it to teaching or training. Students and residents are well-mannered and good critical thinkers in spite of their disgruntled attending. Of COURSE there are wonderful attendings! My point is when students or residents have an attending who has a poor bedside manner and is dismissive to patients, they don't emulate that behavior. They are resolute to stay true to themselves and help patients. One might think that maybe the poor attitudes of physicians (or PA's, or NP's, etc.) can be attributed to the poor attitudes of recent generations, in general. However, that just doesn't seem to be the case because those beginning their career in medicine almost always have a good attitude. The problems seem to occur after years in practice, unfortunately. The generation in training right now are probably more oriented toward customer service, but have much less loyalty than previous generations and few will work in private practice. They'll work in big regional medical groups with corporate owned/managed offices, allowing for a more "anonymous" feeling when seeing patients. I don't know what the solution is. My personal pet-peeve: In a country where everyone's so concerned about the rising costs of medical care, it's too bad a good percentage of patients with common symptoms of common disorders are dismissed repeatedly, without reason. It leads to increased morbidity, multiple costly medical encounters for months/years, and possibly more advanced disease or complications. While that scenario doesn't represent the majority of patients, it does represent enough to have a significant impact on costs, health, and satisfaction. Medicine can be very difficult. The answer isn't always apparent, but when it is, the diagnosis should be made. Let's be honest, most of the time medicine isn't realllly that hard. How many times have you gotten a new patient or consult who's been dismissed and pushed around to different specialties with no luck (or heard of what's happened to a friend or relative) and almost immediately you know the correct diagnosis and just want to scream "what's wrong with everyone?
Last year I had EMTs called to my home because of a siezure like symptom. When they arrived, I was starting to come out of it. They said I had to go to the hospital. I refused treatment. They tried to bully me off the sofa I was sitting on. I resisted their efforts. Five of them tackled me and had me handcuffed. They started filling me with drugs. They dragged me out of my house tied to a stretcher. They did this in front of neighbors, family & friends, and worst of all in front of my 3 grandchildren in my care. Ages 15, 11, and 4. Nice image of the medical profeesion for them to see. I was denied my civil & human rights. I was treated worse than a crimal. I had committed no crime. I am a competent adult. Own a business & work in spare time at my church. How humiliating and trashing of ones dignity.
Once I was forced into the ambulance, they asked which hospital I wanted to go to. Like they were giving me a choice. I told them the one, where my doctor practices. They said they were taking me to another one. the one they ere taking me to is an abortion provinding hospital. I highly resented this because of my faith. They continued to fill me with drugs until I was in a stupor.
When I started to come out of it I found myself chained to a table at the hospital I did not want to be at. I immediatley refused tratment. I also resisted as best I could. I stated my reasons for not wanting to be there. they refused to let me go, continued filling me with drugs to put me back in a stupor. It wasn'nt until several hours later they would release me. And then only if I had signed a form. I evenually went to the other hospital. Unbelievably after I left one of the doctors there made a bald faced lie abount me. He smeared my character. Now because of state law I can't get it removed even though I have proof that what he put in the report is wrong. I no longer trust doctors. I will never let them humiliate me in this way again. I would rather die first. MDS.
I have a fear of doctors...a very real and paralyzing fear.I think the worst part of that fear comes from the fact when you have surgery you are separated from your family.
i am 37 and have not been to a doctor since i was 18.i have always been healthy...never sick other than a cold...never get a flu shot. now i have had my worst nightmare come true...i was in a frontal impact car accident in july and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance. i put off follow up visits with my primary care doctor(who was appointed to me after the accident). i put it off until i found that i can hardly lift things with both arms and the pain wasnt controlled by OTC pills...now i am told i will need a cervical fusion.my worst nightmare come true.....surgery,foreign object placed inside me and no guarantee it will help. I am so scared that i might just forget the whole thing and just get on with my life as well as i can....i hate doctors....its always bad news. JON
Hipa law is crap. All it does is give doctors and medical people freedom to give your info to just about anyone they want to. Like government agencies, other doctors or hospitals, family members. Even if it's got wrong info in it. Don't believe it. Check your medical records and ee who they gave it to, or look up Hipa law. Just another way doctors can abuse people. MDS
It is apparent in these postings to me that there is an enormous amount of anger in this forum. I had a bad experience flying one time, but I still fly because I still can't get from point A to point B without help. I hope that the fear in many of these posts wanes over time, because I don't see any logical concerns, just fear.
-ANMS
Their "treatments" are worse than the illnesses and do far more lasting, horrible damage and they don't give an effing damn because they are "right" and it's what they learned in that human torture chamber called medical school. They should all have to undergo and physically experience what they prescibe. And, I am just the person to GIVE IT TO THEM.
I will nnever allow a "doctor" to ever touch me again unless I can inflict on them what they inflicted upon me.
DOG
I am female. When I was about 8, I think, my mom sent me and my older sister to the doctor. I think for a general checkup. Since when did that include sticking your rough, dry, disgusting fingers into someone's genitals? I hate that SOB to this day and hope he's burning in hell.
Hey ANMS,
You must be a medical student. Maybe you should go back to school. There is a great difference between anger & fear. Perhaps you should take a history course and see what drove people like Genghis Khan or Vlad Dracula to do what they did. It sure wasn't fear.I certainly don't propose people go that route. Just wanted you to understand the difference. There are different routes from A to B. An example might be, since you fear flying, you could try riding a donkey. MDS
ANMS,
I want to be clear about your definition of "logical" concerns. Here are some I have seen and will add a couple I have experienced.
Women given unnecessary pelvic exams (I call that rape) while they were getting other surgery so students could "practice". Why would anyone have a logical concern about that?
People expecting their relationship with their doctor to be confidential (and being expected to provide very personal information to doctors with the illusion doctors can be trusted) only to find that information has been (sometimes legally, but always under cover of HIPPA) given to others without their permission. Why would any logical person have a concern about that.
People dying or permanently disabled because a doctor was so incompetent or biased they assumed a fatal illness was in their head. Certainly illogical to fear that.
People given so many drugs their bodies were messed up for years. Why would any logical person have a concern about this?
People molested by doctors as children, while they were very much awake, and no consequences to the doctor. Obviously, this is the patient, not the doctor's problem. Move along. Nothing going on here. The doctor didn't make note of molesting his patient in his notes, so obviously it didn't happen.
Doctors lying on medical records with no real recourse for patients. Of course, you can write your version of the events so why would anyone who is logical think this is an issue?
Doctors suggesting a patient have sex if they are having headaches. After all, a car accident with a head injury couldn't possibly be the cause of those headaches--and even if it was sex is obviously the solution to those headaches. What logical person would think it would be useful to attempt a diagnosis and maybe even try to provide treatment?
Doctors calling an adult child to get the child to agree to withhold antibiotics and let their parent die--then questioning why the child, who has had daily contact with the hospital and was never told the parent had an infection, wanted to give the parent an antibiotic instead of deciding to kill their parent. By the way, this was NOT an severe infection. One shot of antibiotic and the parent was sitting up that afternoon. Still, any logical person should not be upset about this.
Threatening to take control from a decision maker for an incompetent adult if the decision maker didn't spend tens of thousands of dollars on a medication that was not indicated for the person's condition. Any logical person would be willing to spend the money to hire a lawyer to oppose the doctor and hope the tens of thousands of dollars spent trying to disagree with the doctor were worth it.
Doctors drugging and holding patients against their will when they were competent. Complaints about the above not even being investigated when a complaint was filed. Why would any logical person have a problem with this either?
Doctors treating patients against their will, then charging them for it. Perhaps logical suggests it is a good idea to bankrupt tens of thousands of Americans (including their families) every year just because they cant afford hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of health care? Why would anyone be afraid when the vast majority of Americans are one illness away from poverty--even with insurance?
At least 45,000 people DIED last year because your profession insists on the "personal responsibility" to pay for for-profit health care. Certainly their families have no logical reason to have a problem with doctors. After all, the AMA was actively lobbying to undermine the public option so obviously doctors are above this issue-if it is one.
How many people do you think are damaged every year by a profession that swears to do no harm? And you have the nerve to suggest people who hate doctors are illogical. I would suggest you look at the posts again and think about your own logic.
YZ
From Anonymous today. ..Maurice.
I hate my experience with doctors since I have recurrent strep throat which as been diagnosed independently by 15 different doctors. I get it about 4 times a year, sometimes I can get over it without antibiotics, sometimes I can't and it has lead to more serious complications. When I know the risks, I just want antibiotics prescribed, I hate being disbelieved being told, oh its viral, it just seems so disgustingly arrogant. Yet when you say you have strep, the only attitude I have experienced is one of condescending disbelief "how dare you think you know what you have, we are going to make you wait 3 days for a swab so you can suffer even more." Strep is extremely painful, debilitating, and can be vastly relieved with antibiotics in the majority of cases, and in may experience in 1 or 2 days. I walk out of a clinic when I get that kind of attitude, I would rather die than deal with people who have so little listening skills, and who make you feel like you are on trial, when the answer is simple: Write a prescription and say next. In my case, since there is a repeating history of strep from my childhoold through my adult years, there is no need for a swab. I am sure this exacerbated by the fact that i dont have a personal doctor and they are very difficult to get as well. So far, Im treating my strep infection with herbal bacteriostatics, and iodine gargles, since i can't get my prescription. It takes longer, but it works eventually. I don't understand how physicians can be such morons, maybe the brain shrinks after all that training.
I hate doctors because they're all egomaniacs, and they let their pomposity get in the way of doing their jobs. When one goes to the doctor, the appointment is not about the patient's health. It is about fueling the DOCTOR'S EGO. I'm an MBA from a top 10 business school, and MBAs will try to exploit you and screw you over in any way they can. But we are honest about it. We do not pretend to be something we're not the way doctors do.
Dr. Bernstein,
Would you please comment and elaborate on No Implied Consent, Right to One own autonomy and Self Determination. How does a patient get started getting these in place?
Thanks
In response to the last posting, I would suggest that all documents you sign in a doctors office or in a hospital should be read and acceptable before signing. If you find an important aspect not appropriate for your self-determination or missing you should personally write that into the document as a requirement before you sign. A properly completed and notarized Advance Directive is another important tool to establish your autonomous requests. ..Maurice.
I hate doctors because I've had back problems for 25 .years which at times have been disabling to the point where I have been unable to either walk or work. It has literally ruined my life. Do I know what's has caused the pain and misey? I do not. It could be stenosis, scoliosis, spondilolisthesis, causing the problems but I'll probably die not knowing because so long as I can carry on dragging myself
around by using stronger and stronger pain killers
and my bladder and bowel
still function, I can't have an operation. Ostensibly an op. might make it worse. In reality because I am disabled with another condition so I'm not 'perfectable' therefore a little more disability won't
make any difference.
Quality of life has never
been considered because
here in the UK money-
grubbing hospital managers
decide who funds can be spent on and it's patients who are able to make a full recovery and take their rightful place in society, whilst we disabled are patronized and given pills, and encouraged to leave
the waiting room asap. We
are embarrassing to be
seen as we represent failure by the great god
Doctor. His miracles didn't
work for us therefore it is
somehow our own fault.
AnonChristina the
shambling wreck you see in the corner of the waiting room. I used to be a person. Thanks for nothing docs!
I will never see a Doctor again, I have insurance because it is required but after my last visit 5 years ago I refuse to ever see one again. The attitude that I do not know what I am feeling, the insistance I get my husbands Permission" for my own body. It is all just the tip of why I hate Dr's. I have been scolded that I could get a dread disease and not know and die needlessly, but hey who cares, certinly not the Dr's I ever met. My "untimely" demise would be an opportunity to gloat that another person who dispises medicine is gone and hurrah for the Dr's who so mistreated them they died unattended.
The theroy thet a Dr cares is, in my experience, a falacy.
I don't hate doctors. I don't hate anyone. What I am is just mildly frustrated with what appears to be the inability to actually listen to a patient and what they are saying. I think I could start talking about the football game I saw over the weekend and would still get the same "ah uh" answer. I do my best to educate myself about the symptoms and potential problems before the visit so I can be an active participant in the process, but I've only ever had one doctor who would actually listen. The others were in a hurry to write a prescription and get on to the next patient.
Brad
I hate doctors for so many reasons. The first reason occurred in 1982 when I gave birth to a 10 lb 2.5 oz baby, & my doc, who I saw 2 wks earlier, had no clue! Epidurals didn't work, so I had natural birth. Baby born with broken collar bone, but NO they didn't know it. I discovered it 2 wks later! And it just goes downhill from there. So many negative experiences, not just for me, but for everyone in my family. I can't recount them all here. Some I see as negligence. But my sense of the medical profession overall is that their arrogance & god complex prevent them from listening to the patient. They won't tell you any natural cures, or even suggest dietary changes, but they sure are quick to whip out that prescription pad so they can keep their buddies in the pharmaceutical industry in business. They aren't interested in prevention, and certainly not cures, on in treatment with drugs & surgery. They don't tell you the truth about the failure of diagnostic tests, but they're sure quick to write an order for one. They think their patients are stupid. They treat (with drugs) without proper diagnostic tests. And believe me, this is based on every doctor I and my family have been to over the past 35 years. The biggest joke in medicine today is the FDA. I have no faith that any doctor anywhere has an ethical bone in his/her body. They're all a bunch of fakes!
Sign me....Disgusted in Atlanta
Disgusted in Atlanta, I teach first and second year medical students and I have never found them arrogant or uncaring for patients. What do you think happens later on to produce the doctors which you describe? ..Maurice.
Maurice, why would you see the students as arrogant? Of course they don't act that way in front of teachers. I don't think it is something that changes in them later, to think that the majority of your students that go into the profession are doing so because they are caring is pretty ignorant in my opinion. As a student in a Health Science Center I can tell you that nursing/allied health students (no, I'm not either) hold the majority of students who actually care about their patients. The other schools attract people who believe they are "smart enough to be the boss." The majority of people can let that ego extend into arrogance. And I have definitely seen that mostly from students in the medical school. Just ask them what they think of students who go to into nursing, dental, PT, pharm and from experience I can say that most medical students say something along the lines of "they weren't smart enough to get into medical school."
I don't think the profession changes people. I think the people that are drawn to it already share common characteristics that are simply enhanced as they grow further in the field.
In chapter 2 the following was stated: (1) commitment to excellence; (2) altruism, with service before self-interest; (3) avoidance of harm; (4)trustworthiness; (5) pursuit of truth based on scientific and humanistic criteria; (6) close cooperation with others in the health care field; and (7) humility.
Numbers 2, 3,5,6, and 7 immediately jump out at simply laughing points. Is the public supposed to believe that doctors do such things?! Service before self-interest is that why so many doctors can schedule appointments accordingly so patients wait 45 min+ for appointments? The prominent self-interest is what makes people believe that the drugs we are given are based on which drug rep gave the best "lunch and learn" or the most samples. 3. Avoidance of harm? Why is it so hard for doctors to test patients before they provide them with antibiotics?! I don't believe we would have such rampant antibiotic toxicities and resistances if doctors would just take 15 more minutes with each patient and explain why just writing a script is more harm than good and instead just test them for a disease first. I've seen patients recently who are taking drugs to treat the side effects of other drugs. How is that doing no harm? I had one patient tell me that no matter how many times she tells her doctor about her glucose levels or the pain in her chest the doctor just says "if it gets worse tell me." Point 5 touches on the same basis as the previous thoughts. There is little proof before treatments are given. 6. As a future professional in another medical field I can say that from my teachers and clinic instructors the idea of getting a physician to consult a patient with you is a joke because your voice is never heard.
I think the public perception of physicians is pretty clear. The bigger question is what is actually being taught in schools to prevent the next generation of physicians from losing the trust of their patients?
PS I don't think all physicians are bad. I think there are definitely some specialties that attract those med. students who do actually care about their patient.
Maurice, to answer your question...I don't have a clue what happens to medical students. I think they are put through the hell you call medical school & residency, and after that, they just want to get on with it.
I do agree with the previous poster who think you just aren't seeing the students' arrogance. I also agree with every point she made.
Last week my 72-yr-old husband had a gout flare up. He went to doc who gave him a steroid injection and scrips for indomethacin and hydrocodone, the latter because my husband had not been able to sleep in 3 days because of the pain. Two days later his hand was no better, so he went back and they gave him a scrip for prednisone 10 mg to be taken over 6 days in decreasing dosages. Three days later, while returning from a trip, he had explosive diarrhea, his stool was tarry black, and no, it wasn't anything he ate. He stopped taking all meds. That's when I noticed he was very pale. Two days later he had morning nausea. He returned to doc who did blood work and gave him another scrip for indomethacin which he took that day. The next day he had nausea, weakness, & was horribly pale. He felt so bad he couldn't go to work, which means he's really sick, and he's NEVER sick! I told him to stop taking the indomethacin and whatever other crap they give him. Three days later, which was yesterday, doc has him come in for another blood test and asked my husband if he's anemic. Not to his knowledge. Doc said the meds probably made him sick. Doc decided to do prostate exam, used some device I've never heard of, which showed blood in the stool. So out came the prescription pad and doc wrote 2 scrips, for nexium and pepcid. When he came home, he told me what happened, and said the scrips would help stop bleeding.
I knew those are meds for GERD, which he no longer has, so I start search the internet. I discover that indeed the prednisone and indomethacin together can cause ulcers, and that idiot doctor gave it to a 72-yr-old man! then I researched ulcer treatments, and I found out that nexium and pepcid are used to treat ulcers, but two different kinds of ulcers. And since the damn doc didn't do any diagnostic test to find out if my husband even HAS an ulcer (caused by the meds), much less which kind, doc give meds for both kinds. So now my husband is taking 2 meds to fix what the first meds did to him.
This is just one story in so so many in my life experience. I could write a book on the negative experiences I've had.
I do want to get my own blood work done to see if my dietary changes have improved my cholesterol, and if I don't want to pay out of pocket, I'll have to go to a doctor, who will bitch and moan when I say I just want the order because I like going to the lab. I'll make an appt but I'll have to sit in docs office because it's all about quantity, not quality. Their time is valuable, but my time is not.
In the end, it's all about the money!
From Disgusted in Atlanta
To the anonymous intern who posted regarding the PhD's and the negative comments: The fact that the comments here bother you shows that you do still care and you are not like the doctors those here have encountered. Please don't loose faith.
I have finally found a doctor who treats me like a human being. He is a very sweet older doctor who came to this small town in Wyoming to work before he retires. Doctors are not all the same. I have Fibromyalgia. It is a very difficult illness to have. When your doctor does not believe you, either do your family and friends. It becomes very easy to dislike doctors with this illness. I think many doctors eventually become burned out and loose perspective. It becomes all about the paycheck and pleasing insurance companies. Further, they loose the ability to "think outside the box." If it isn't in the medical books, it does not exist and who really cares if it does. Please don't do that. You sound like a caring person and that will make you a good doctor. Please keep caring
p.s.- My own comment: If a doctor is unsure or has no idea of what is the diagnosis, there is always some professional which the patient can be referred to who does. ..Maurice.
Seriously!? So, basically, you are saying that there is nothing that human beings do not know or understand. Not one problem, especially a medical problem. Sorry, Maurice, but that is a ridiculous statement.
I can't find my comment to read in what context it was written. Mya..perhaps you have the date. What I meant what I wrote is probably related to the concept of a "second opinion." However, the "second opinion" is always just an "opinion", nevertheless the doctor to which the patient was referred may be able to provide a diagnostic workup not thought of by the original physician which may lead to the correct diagnosis. ..Maurice.
I find it an extremely frustrating experience to have to deal with doctors. I'm an ex-programmer, and a science geek, and I've spent the bulk of my life creating and debugging complex systems. I'm female, and now middle-aged, and I've had a very long depressive period triggered by the end of a relationship that I valued greatly. I've had some serious and chronic health problems (besides my tendency to depression).
Long story short - I *occasionally* see my doctor about the specifics of my problems. He, in turn, doesn't take them seriously (I clearly suffer from neurotic middle-aged female syndrome). I see all his logical fallacies, his cognitive biases (he's a Christian, for example, and predisposed to the philosophy of dualism) and I sit there and take it all with as much grace as I can muster. Notwithstanding the tone of this post, that's a lot more grace than you might imagine.
I recently discovered that a sizeable chunk of my problems appear to be attributable to undiagnosed pernicious anaemia. I've had the symptoms associated for about 7 years.
I could take my doctor apart, intellectually.
I have been reading the comments posted here by patients and doctors. There is a lot of anger on both sides. I for one wouldn't say I hate doctors but I don't trust them. I never like going to the doctor. Last year I was bleeding whenever I had a bowel movement and I notice mucous too. I was so scared I immediately thought it may be colon cancer since members of my family had gotten colon cancer. I went to the doctor and she was looking at me like I was crazy. She was like your too young...It's probably hemorrhoids. My blood pressure was high. She finally said I will refer you to a GI.
My first appointment at the GI, she asked me questions like what you do for a living, marital status, etc. I'm thinking it's on the sheet I had to fill out before I came in here. She was like I got to ask you these question. She said it's probably just hemorrhoids. She got up and said I will just do a colnoscopy and walked out. I felt like once again I was dismissed.
Go in to have my colonscopy she didn't even say good morning. I ignored it. They put me to sleep and I woke up during the procedure. Why? I don't know. After everything was over with the nurse said I'm going to put you in the waiting room and the doctor will be out here to talk to you and your mother. Well, we waited and waited. My mother said I'm going to go see what is taking so long. My mother comes back and she says she started on another procedure. The doctor comes out and wheels me back in and look at the sheet she took pictures of my colon & comments and said, "Well, it's really nothing to write home about." I could have cried. I don't see how any person, doctor or not could justify being so mean. My mother got so angry. Scared me & the doctor.
I made up my mind I wasn't going back not even to get the biospy results. The GI doctor called me personally on the phone and said I hope you do come back. I got your lab results and they said I missed some polyps & I need to take a look at something else. Her attitude changed! I had to do a flex sig (I was awoke) and sure enough she saw what the lab tech was talking about. To make a long story short I had ulcerative proctitis not hemorrhoids.
I switch primary dr. and got a new doctor because of my concerns abouth my high bp. I was hit with this stuff all at once and it was overwhelming. I have to deal with ulcerative proctitis and now high bp. She couldn't understand why I was upset. Next thing I know she ask me what's going on at your house. WTF! She wanted to put me on depression meds as if I'm not taking enough pills & enemas from the UP and now high bp. No, I was not crying and acting the fool in her office. I said to myself I got another dr. who is dimissing me and I'm not coming back. I cancelled my follow up appointment with her. The very next day she called me too personally at work asking me when is your appointment.
It amaze me if the doctors thought their behavior was alright why would you call me, but I respected the fact they did. It hurt's real bad when dr.s make a patient feel like it's in their head and try to make you out to be a nut case. If I come to you it's because I'm sick not to seek attention from you. My primary dr. could look at the charts and see I only come for my yearly check up.
They did do me harm mentally and could have physically. What if I took their word for the hemorrhoids and never got treated? My UP could have spread....that's if my high bp didn't kill me first.
When you have been healthy and now face with chronic disease...It's upsetting. So what it's not life threatening. It's a lot to deal with at one time.
I hate doctors
I started hating them when I was young. When I was 4 years old, I broke my arm. I had to stay overnight for awhile in the hospitable. I kept asking for my mom. Apparently, the doctors had reported her to the authorities because of my broken arm. While I realize that they can't say "you can't see your mommy because we put her in jail", what they did say - she's getting coffee - was ridiculous. It was believable at first, but my very impatient mother stayed in line for coffee for 4 days! They even told me it was a really long line.
OK, so you say get over it. Maybe that's fair, but I never learned how to communicate with these people. I'll even admit that I'm not the best communicator - doctor or not - but I seem to muddle through.
Doctors seem to take this lack communication skills as a sign that I'm crazy. Not, I get the feeling that they think I'm crazy - they actually tell me that I need to see a mental health professional. Two doctors have refused to see me until I was cleared by one. Another said he would treat me if I signed my rights over to another individual, a friend or family member.
What drives me nuts is that this is acceptable for these doctors. They still get paid and they don't treat you. They don't prescribe tests. They do nothing.
The other thing I hate about doctors is that they try to solve easier problems. You go in with a hurt foot and they want to give you a pap smear. I don't care if you know how to do that. I don't care if it's an important test. I care about the issue that I have. After my problem is solved, I'll consider what preventive maintenance, but I don't want to be sold a car freshener until I have a car.
Finally I really hate that I the patient / customer seem to need to stroke the doctor's ego. I don't get that in my job. I'm an engineer. If I want to pull something out of a failing system, I need to show why that item in particular is the item that needs to be pulled out, discuss what other items can be causing the same problems and why I want to start with the item that I choose. Try to get a doctor to do that for - even verbally. I've tried and been told that it would take too much time to explore all possibilities. Why do I have to trust them if they won't even listen?
I don't understand why vets can solve my dog's problems so much faster than a doctor can solve a similar human problem. The vet doesn't even have a patient who can talk!
Also things seem to move faster with vets. With doctors I think I get burnt out on the whole process before I get finished.
I started hating doctors a few months ago. I've had a couple issues in the past that made me feel like doctors did not care me or about finding a solution, but my disgust with doctors develped after i started receiving collection notices for a few hours that i waited in the ER before I was transfered to another hospital. The transfer hospital granted me Charity Care and said my bill was payed for 100%, and everyone failed to mention that the admitting hospital would not be covered under Charity Care unless I applied seperately. I didn't recieve bills, just a year later collection agencies started hounding me. I called the admitting hospital and they wouldn't help me. They just told me to settle with the collection agencies and that CC won't cover me since its been more than a year. The really screwed up thing is the amount of the bills. I got no care at the admiting hospital. They interviewed me and gave me a bed for a short time and then transfered me. No doctor even came to talk to me, I think $20 - 50 dollars would be a fair price for what i recieved, but I "owe" thousands of dollars, some of it to some unscrupulous physican who didn't even see me or provide servies but thinks he should scam me out of a grand. It's robbery. It's blackmail, they hold your health or your lfe over your head for exorbitant fees, and it just makes me sick.
My name is Albert...im dont know if hate doctors... but i'm really worry about the situation i found... my ex girlfriend (21 years old) is studyng medicine, forced by her mom, she used to hate the carrer for many reasons... because she said it was full of conceited, prepotent people...cuz she said doctor dont care about people... because the sexual harassment of doctors and interns, and the horrible things that she had to witness and do, she told me a lot of stories of pervesions that happened there; some of them about the pervert gynecologists, that in her first class of urology Dr. put a porn movie!!! why???? that her friends were always looking for the cute patients to do "touchs", theres a lot of stories i could tell... i remmeber one, some girl (resident) playing with the penis of some patien in coma and laughing about the size...how can that be possible! a future doctor doing that! so much perversion!!!... sudenly, she (my ex) started to love her carrer for the same reasons she hate it before... she admited to enjoy (in some way she couldnt explain) doing "medical touchs" (penis, vagina etc) to their patients, and then she told that she would love to see a penectomy, cuz she would like to see the procedure, how come a doctor have that wish... a man losing his penis just to satisfy their morbid... i told her that that was wrong! it doesnt suppose to be like that... but she got mad with me and told me im crazy, that i will never understand cuz i wasnt a doctor and she was...she said she asked to their friends and all of them feel the same way...
she turn into a cold heart, souless, horrible person... i broke her... but i still love her :(
please doctor answer me! is this normal?!!! why things are like this in your profession??? please tell me something... i really need answers...
I have posted here before. I am back because of the way my husband was treated. He is 42 and has had chronic prostatitis for several years. He has had one surgery to remove scar tissue and was supposed to have another to cut around the prostate. However, we both have other ongoing medical problems that have required other surgeries and are behind on our medical bills. We have good insurance but are behind on our share of the payments.
My husband went in expecting surgery because that was what he told. The doctor came back into the room 15 minutes later and said his situation wasn't bad enough for surgery and it was probably due to him taking tramadol (eventhough he had started the tramadol long after the prostate problems started). My husband had been through all the prostate medicines and they no longer worked. Further, he had been in the emergency room several times because he could not get the urine past his prostate. Now his bladder is permanently paralyzed and it will never be normal again. He will have to self catherterize for life. I found out later that this doctor had overbooked and had two patients scheduled at the same time. I am assuming the other patient was all caught up on his bills.
This is only part of the story. My son, my husband and I have been sick for years. We have all been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and osteo arthritis. My son is only 16. I have been telling doctors for years that we have a virus because that is how it all started out for us. No one would listen. Recently we found out our problems are connected to an onging HTLV infection (Human T-Cell Lymphoma Virus). We all tested positive. It turns out that they have made a connection in South American between retroviruses like HTLV and HIV and certain autoimmune diseases with Fibromyalgia. In one study they found that 38% of those people who tested positive for HTLV had Fibromyalgia. Further, HTLV has been connected to BPH.
I can't get anyone to listen. All I get is "Fibromyalgia is not a real disease" or it is caused by post-traumatic stress. By the way, they did the same thing to persons with MS before the invention of the MRI. They were faking it, or it was caused by stress, depression or trauma.
I don't hate doctors because I project my illness on to them Dr. Bernstein. I hate them because of the way my family has been treated. I hate them because my son is getting sicker and no one will listen. No one will help.
I’m not an MD, but I’m a nursing student. In one of my classes, a lawyer from my university’s medical center spoke with us about legal issues that we may encounter in the future. I remember him speaking about assaults and warned us to never touch a patient if a patient tells us not to touch them. Any unwanted physical contact would be considered assault even if it’s just a harmless, light touch on the hand. I read a story on this blog about a woman who did not want residents touching her or examining her as she was going into labor, but felt that she had no choice or say in the matter. After reading this, I immediately thought that this would be considered an assault. There was no medical need for residents to examine her. It was just practice for the residents. She went on to write that no lawyer would take the case because it was considered standard procedure. No lawyer would take the case, because lawyers are after money and this would be difficult to get a sizeable settlement, but she could have gone to the police and speak to them about her concerns. The police can charge a person for assault and the DA’s office can prosecute. Large hospitals usually have the actual police on site.
On another note, nursing students must complete an L&D clinical. We’re paired with an L&D nurse and we shadow them during their shift. Nursing instructors know that some women are uncomfortable with a male nursing student especially when they are giving birth, but here’s the dilemma, male nursing students must also complete the L&D clinical. To solve this problem, nursing instructors just don’t ask women if they are okay with a male nursing student taking care of them, but the women can refuse and I hope women know they can refuse. They just have to speak up.
Please don’t assume that just because someone is well-educated and has a professional degree, that he or she will have the highest moral values. I worked for a female anesthesia attending at a large university teaching hospital and she experiences sexual harassment constantly from so-called peers. She is mostly in the OR and has described the OR as a male locker room. If surgical attendings don’t treat their peers with respect, why should patients expect anything different from attendings or maybe even residents?
In one of my nursing classes, we have to learn to give breast exams. I’m not sure when nurses will have to perform this exam, but I had to learn it and practiced on a prosthetic breast. We were placed into groups of four and there was a male nursing student in my group. He seemed to enjoy giving a breast exam too much and had a very perverted look on his face. We were all supposed to take turns giving the breast exam, but he wouldn’t let anyone else near the prosthetic breast. I was the only one who spoke up. I told him he looked like a pervert and the rest of the female nursing students need to practice as well. The other female nursing students thought I was too sensitive and quickly dismissed my concerns that this guy was being a pervert. After my outburst, this guy became the most considerate and reserved guy towards the female manekins.
SN
AL, I’m so sorry for your experience. I don’t know if you still read this blog, but I hope you will read this. I just found this blog or else, I would’ve commented earlier. You have a lot of anger and I understand that, but you can do something to protect other children from the same experience. From reading your entries, it sounds like nothing has been done or said to the pediatrician who gave you the pelvic exam. If you feel that this was a violation to your body and I know you feel this way, go speak about this to the police. When I have a question about my rights under the law, I just go to the security office at the medical center and speak with a police officer, not hospital security. The police officer told me what I can do if a patient assaults me and the procedure that follows my reporting. If the police can’t help you, you can try to get the laws change by writing to your local congressman or senator or even setting up a meeting with your mayor to change the laws. Doctors usually don’t ask for a child’s permission. They just ask for the parent’s permission, but you can change this.
SN
Today, Jack wrote the following but in order to maintain a notion of civil language on my blog, as moderator, I edited out some language but I think most readers will get the ideas presented. ..Maurice.
Holy [DELETED]ing [DELETED] people. I can't tell whether you are just angry people of what the [DELETED] is wrong with you. You expect doctors to figure out every single thing that is [DELETED]ing wrong with you then bitch and moan when they don't because you haven't been to see them in 10 [DELETED]ing years. [DELETED]ing hell this seems to be the blog for whiney little asshole who are either jealous they failed at life. And by the way it's probably not your doctor thats the problem it's probably YOU. Stop [DELETED]ing bitching if you never visit your doctor, never tell them anything and completely stonewall them when they ask questions and things. Oh and to the person who said they got "violated" during a pelvic exam and thinks there pediatrician is a pedophile and plots to kill your mother and can't be in a relationship, GROW THE [DELETED] UP. The genitals is just another body part that needs routine check ups to stop lots of harmful diseases. Your pediatrician isn't a [DELETED]ing pedophile he's a professional who was concerned for your health and was merely doing a routine check up so stop [DELETED]ing whining because you turned it into an ordeal 20 times bigger than it had to be. And while maybe a tiny portion are assholes most doctors are cautious because [DELETED]wits like you people will sue them to the ground if they say one [DELETED]ing thing wrong so seriously take a good [DELETED]ing look at yourself and ask, is it my fault or theirs. [DELETED]ing bunch of whiners.
Signed, Jack Perstein
Another comment apparently from Jack. ..Maurice.
Thank for letting me post that Maurice.
Jack here again addressing another couple of issues this bunch of whiners have been crying about, most namely prescriptions, surgery and hospital bills. If your really that stupid as to why hospital bills and GP bills are so expensive it's because of the hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt the doctors are in from completing medical school to try and help [DELETED]wits and whingers like you bunch of people. A lot of you also think that doctors are not ever meant to make a single [DELETED]ing mistake or do anything wrong ever. If a doctor misses something or doesn't have the time to help you thoroughly it's probably because either a) they are [DELETED]ing humans not [DELETED]ing robots or b) they are so tired and busy from dealing with annoying people like you who expect the world from their doctor and expect it for only about $5 [DELETED]ing dollars. Seriously seeming blind or just plain stupid. It's a difficult profession nowadays and they are trying their best to help get you well, and like unsaid last post all you do is stonewall them and sue them when they don't catch something because you didn't [DELETED]ing tell them. No wonder they all [DELETED]ing hate you kind of whiny little bitches. Far out
Maurice/Jack
People do not trust Dr's because they have learned not to. Consider that Dr's may have their own concerns for income changes due to increased law suits, new laws and the fact that patients now have access to an internet full of information (good and bad) so are no longer worshiping the Dr as their only hope for survival. The days of the caring country Dr, the "Kildare" with hopes for curing human ills are long past. The new "improved" Dr is just a practitioner, haveing no real hope at becoming expert, just well paid.
I hope "Jack" is not a physician. Patients are not responsible for young doctors' debt or for inappropriate behavior commited by health care professionals. They are also not responsible for the predatory role corporations have had in turning what in EVERY developed nation except the US is illegal (for profit healthcare) into a national nightmare. The idea that patients are whining and other words (profanity deleted) is deeply offensive. Every profession has bad apples, and to pretend otherwise is naive. The problem with bad apples in medicine is the vulnerability of their patients, the reality that at some point everyone needs a doctor (no matter how much they swear never to see one again), and the lifelong consequences of some of the actions mentioned in this blog.
I came to this site because I hate doctors and the sickness industry. I call it that because I am old enough to remember a when medicine was an honorable profession and people didn't have to bankrupt themselves and their family just because they got sick or were injured. While I have a good understanding of how medical professionals found themselves caught up in this mess, I believe the role many play in allowing this to worsen and fester cheapens the work everyone does.
My experience has been with an incomprehensible degree of corruption, concern for profit no matter what the cost, and an utter contempt for patients that I think is pervasive. I do everything I can to stay away from doctors--something that is hard when being disabled. That said, I know there are many decent, competent medical professionals doing what they believe they can in a difficult system. That is why I participate here and why I try to be respectful.
It is one thing to vent outrage. It is another to use abusive language toward people who have the courage to vent their frustrations. One of the things I think "Jack" is missing (as are others whose view of patients seems to be that they are a bunch of spoiled, whining drug seekers--my interpretation) is a bias that eliminates any chance for discussion and considering solutions. It also suggests that doctors are just poor helpless victims who are constantly the victim of complaining patients and nuisance suits. Despite what we are led to believe and the occasional well publicised nuisance suit, it is very hard in most states to sue a healthcare professional--at least as a practical matter.
I have never sued or tried to sue a doctor. I did try to use the systems in place to "resolve grievances" and did file complaints. It was from that I learned how dangerous the system really was and how truly unprotected patients are. When the systems in place don't work, suits are the only optiion. When doctors cover up their mistakes and when state medical boards collude, suits are the only option. There are times when there are real damages and, sadly, there are times when professionals need to be forced to listen. When the sickness industry insulates itself to the degree it has and refuses to be accountable, exactly what do they expect from patients who have lost everything?
Patients desparately want their healthcare providers to listen to them. They want to be treated respectfully. As a group, I don't believe they are either whiny drug seekers or are just going from one doctor to the next looking for one to sue. Similarly, most doctors just want to do their job effectively in a very difficult environment. In the end, it is the patient who is most vulnerable because their choices are truly limited. To blame them for the problems of doctors is unfair, as it is unfair to blame doctors for all of the ills of our sickness industry. To Jack, one gets a lot farther being civil. I hope you are not a doctor. You were willing to use the kind of language you did in a forum that gives frustrated patients a chance to be heard. If you are a professional, I hope you will look at your own attitudes and judgment.
ST
I'm a male medical student and as a break from studying I ended up on this blog. I've read most of the posts in the 3 parts.
Congratulations, you have helped discourage me from continuing on with my studies. You get angry at the occasional physician coming in here and complaining about the posts by patients. But you have not been giving constructive criticism. You have been unleashing a twisted torrent of absolute hatred for every single doctor.
It's one thing to have bad experiences with doctors and post them in a helpful and calm manner. Some of you have done that and I'm thankful, because it is indeed important to have doctors keep in mind the patient experience and to not make such quick judgments, truly listen to a patient's complaints, not consider themselves as gods, and only recommend something the patient is uncomfortable with if all other options have been thoroughly explored. But lashing out at all doctors as greedy, capitalist, psychopaths, murderers, serial killers, rapists, lazy, and part of a big conspiracy theory involving insurance companies and pharmaceutical industries, or saying all male doctors are perverted...
To those of you who use those words to describe doctors and say you will never go to another doctor again- good. I hope I will never have to run into people like you in my career.
In the meantime I can only try my best to listen to the more constructive comments and try to make myself a better and more understanding doctor with that. It will be a little hard to regain my ideals back though considering how truly disgusting most of the patients posting here have been.
--DA
DA, don't become discouraged from what you have read in these 3 chapters of the thread. You probably will never see a patient that would hate you even if other physicians have. Why? Because, what I can't tell from with statistical validity to what extent there is a social group with "I hate doctors" point of view and acting on that viewpoint. What size population are those writing here actually representing?
My advice to all patients would be if you are not happy with your doctor, the first thing is to speak up to the doctor and explain. If you don't do that you are missing a chance for making changes in the doctor's practice or the medical system. After explaining and listening to the response, you have the right to terminate the doctor-patient relationship and move on.
..Maurice.
Ok mr med student guy do not drop out of medicine! It will pay off.
Ok then "ST" to address some of your issues, why is it you think that all doctors are corrupt and only seeking money. You obviously must only have ever been to one doctor and you got a not so good one. Although I will concede SOME doctors are out there for money, this is most likely due to exorbitant debt and fear of being sued. It is similar to the chicken and the egg. Who cam first? Was the doctor always after money, or is he only after money BECAUSE all his patients are ready to bend him over and fuck him in the ass for millions of dollars iff he makes 1 damn mistake.
With the addition of things such as the Internet and easy access to info, although there is absolutely NO substitute for a doctor who can look,see,hear,smell and touch you to help diagnose and treat your condition. Now while I present the point that doctors are actually the victims in this and that the patients are mainly looking to sue them into the ground and ruin their reputation, you present the idea that the patients are scared helpless and unprotected, similar to deer in a hunting park while the the hunters (doctors in this analogy) chase them down and try to kill them.
I believe it is up to the patient to try and form a good patient doctor patient relationship, due to the incredible workload and stress that comes with the profession.
While it may not be the patients fault for the debt/workload/unsavory colleagues it is certainly not their right to cause to cause bad blood and tension that can spiral a relationship down hill very very quickly.
I also do not see why it is so hard the merely change doctors. Half the pathetic whiners on this blog bitch and moan and are probably either too stupid or just too ignorant to realise they CAN change doctors if their current one is bugging them.
- Jack Perstein
Well DA, if you feel this strongly about "people like you" (aka patients) then maybe you should terminate your studies. You seem to have more of a problem with the way people express the abuses they have endured in this system than the abuses themselves. While it may be unfair to judge every doctor by bad experiences you've had with a few (or most) doctors, that is a fairly mild offense compared to the abuse, emotional and physical trauma and even death that patients endure at the hand of those bad physicians, wouldn't you say?
I find it much easier to tolerate feminists who say "all men are rapists" then I would being raped, and then having to deal with self-centered individuals demanding I keep the conversation "civil" for fear of offending them. Sorry, but the need for patients to speak out against the abuses they have suffered vastly exceeds the right of you and other doctors to be shielded from uncomfortable realities about your profession.
Sure, there are good doctors out there. But I see only a handful of doctors speaking out against the abuses in this system. Most of the alleged "good doctors" are "Good Germans" who are content to go along with this barbaric system and keep their mouths shut and only seem to find their voice when it's their egos or incomes that are on the line, however mild the threat to either.
I am a regular reader of medical blogs and see the authoritarian, fascistic attitudes and sheer hatred many doctors have towards their patients, but it is rare indeed to see any doctor questioning any of these attitudes, and the fact so many doctors feel comfortable expressing such venom in public even under their own names speaks volumes.
Payne Hertz-
First of all, don’t put words in my mouth. When I said “people like you” I didn’t mean all patients, nor did I even mean all the people posting here. I meant the patients who are expressing a severe hatred of doctors.
Second, I have every right to get offended and feel strongly about people calling me, and every colleague of mine, both now and in the future, the lowest form of evil in the world, saying they wish they could have us lined up and shot, and then you just now implying that we are similar to Nazis. All promotion of hatred and tension between two groups of people deserves to be condemned. A feminist saying all men are rapists, or a poster here saying all doctors are evil, are doing nothing but promoting hatred and tension. They are not offering any solutions, and are just a part of the problem and the chain reaction that leads to discord and distrust between patients and doctors, men and women, or whatever else. What do you honestly expect? For physicians- who have been experiencing a completely different side of the story than being presented here and whose perspective is being invalidated by nearly every post- to join the blog and say “Yes, I am the scum of the Earth! I hope everyone I know and work with dies!”?
Of course I condemn any and all abuse of patients by doctors. I am also a patient as I suffer from a chronic syndrome, and I’ve also met some real jerk doctors and I’ve resolved never to see them and never to act like them. I commented that constructive criticism is welcome, and that it is important to introduce and suggest reforms to make the patient experience better. Explaining one’s bad experiences with doctors, and saying they are not good listeners or communicators and there needs to be improvement, or saying that doctors should not be recommending dangerous procedures with such short notice and giving no information, that is good and useful. I am going to do my best to keep that in mind and use those stories not to act like the doctors that patients despise for those reasons. And I will try to detect if people I work with act like that and try to get them to act more professionally in whatever way I can. And I have seen disturbing situations in hospitals I’ve volunteered at where a surgeon was messing up left and right. All the doctors working with him were complaining that he needs to be fired before he gets someone killed. The hospital administrators figured that would look bad for the hospital and refuse to fire him. The doctors are trying to figure out what to do next. So I’m not saying these truly abusive and messed up situations don’t happen. They deserve condemnation and serious attention.
But a good chunk of posts here have gone far behind a resentment over an incompetent or abusive doctor, and have entered a realm of irrational anger and disgust. What else do you call a PhD commenting that doctors are idiots and inferior to engineers and scientists, some random person claiming that medical school is for idiots because a graduate program in physics presents a higher level of mathematics, people asserting that all doctors are part of a shadowy conspiracy involving pharmaceutical companies and no doctor has any ethics whatsoever? Some people here were complaining that any touch by a doctor is molestation and violating, whether in the genitals, the arm, or anywhere. The reason examinations are standard is because they can test for and give clues to certain disorders that people who do not have medical training simply don’t know about. But that’s just ignored in favor of calling all male doctors rapists, pedophiles, and molesters.
Part 2
I’m going to give a little bit of the perspective of doctors I’ve shadowed. I’ve seen how 10 patients would come in, each one claiming to have 10/10 pain while playing games on their iphone and smiling, demanding painkillers, and getting angry about a long wait time when there are multiple codes in the E.R. An 11th patient came in with what looked to be serious pain and the doctor treated her as one of the previous 10. Is that justified? No, I do not think so at all. But in context, it is easy to see how any person being put into such stress and deceit ends up acting like this. Does that make it ok? Not at all. But the issue is not of the doctor being an evil abusive nightmarish creature. It’s an issue of the circumstances. The solution is to study how such situations come about and find anything, any form of training or procedure, which can prevent them. For example, I’m a fan of Atul Gawande, who noted that introducing checklists in operating rooms decreased the chance of a procedural mistake during surgeries by some large percentage, and that fostering team cooperation between doctors, nurses, and scrub techs before the procedure begins could remind the surgeon or anesthesiologist of a special circumstance that they may have forgotten. Surgeons who were being rude to nurses and other doctors starting showing some humility when they had to comply with these procedures and noticed the sheer amount of important facts they were forgetting about a certain patient’s allergies and such.
But calling the entire medical system a system of abuse and evil really pisses me off. You feel I should terminate my studies, but I’m actually feeling pretty motivated right now. I went into this for the same reason most of the people I know went into this: a fascination with the science behind medicine and the hope to improve this world in some way by improving patients’ lives. During tough exam weeks my classmates and I will send articles about patients whose lives have been saved in surgeries and other inspiring stories as a way to keep us motivated for studying. And I’m willing to sacrifice time and energy to becoming a good doctor, and listen to feedback that’s presented to me in a rational way and not as a thin film covering bitter hatred.
-DA
- Jack here
Well bloody good DA :) it's great to hear you are continuing with what can be one of the most rewarding careers in the world. - Payne Hertz. What the fuck is wrong with. Why do you strut around acting like doctors are worse than criminals, and as DA mentioned above about the 11/10 patients scamming for pain meds, and you still wonder why doctors resent a lot of their patients. Most patients will never admit it's their fault then come and vent their rage on Internet forums instead of doing something real about, like if the "abuse" (if there actually was any) was bad enough to see the police, or just talk to your doctor about it.
Do you have some kind of personal vendetta against all doctors or something? Because your comments seem like you are either corrupt or just plain stupid.
To touch base on the way people express the "abuse" people suffered I too have a problem with them doing nothing more than bitching about in an online forum, instead if actually doing something, as I mentioned before. Patients speaking out about the injustice they have suffered is neither valiant or brave, nor is there the slightest need for it at all. Both the patient and the doctor have the right to terminate the relationship.
Also, comparing all good doctors to German barbers who are only interested in money, ego and patient threats is just bullshit. You are clearly vastly overcompensating for a slight injustice you may have suffered by blaming every doctor and person under the sun except yourself, who fault it probably was anyway.
In summary, you are blaming a once noble system that has been crippled and broken by lawsuits, horrible patients and ridiculous insurance premiums. Put yourself in an overworked doctors shoes, who has just spent the day dealig with annoying drug scamming patients and see how good you feel ok?
- Jack
So many doctors would rather see
part 2
100 legit patients suffer than see a single drug seeker get over on the system, but then you bristle when I use the word "fascist" to describe that kind of authoritarian cruelty.
Can you seriously deny the truth of what I am saying here? Can you deny that people with chronic pain are denied treatment and treated abusively on a routine basis in this system? Or does that not matter?
You talk about deceit. How would you like to be the guy who spends $2,000 to go to the ER because he's in excruciating pain from a back injury, and is then forced to wait for 10 hours in an uncomfortable waiting room and treated with hostility by the nurses because he dares to remind them that he's been waiting for hours. Then his pain is dismissed and he is sent home without treatment because some asshole saw him smiling or talking on his cellphone. But they still stole his $2,000 while doing nothing for him. Or maybe they give him a whopping 10 Vicodin before shoving him off. That's $200 a pill.
And you call drug-seeking a "scam?"
So what if someone lies to you to get drugs. Why is this such an issue with you doctors? Is the thought of someone you regard as your intellectual and social inferior being able to outsmart you from time to time so galling to you that you are willing to see hundreds of innocent people suffer to avoid a blow to your ego?
Apparently blogger swallowed the first part of my response so I am reposting both parts.
I’ve seen how 10 patients would come in, each one claiming to have 10/10 pain while playing games on their iphone and smiling, demanding painkillers, and getting angry about a long wait time when there are multiple codes in the E.R. An 11th patient came in with what looked to be serious pain and the doctor treated her as one of the previous 10. Is that justified? No, I do not think so at all. But in context, it is easy to see how any person being put into such stress and deceit ends up acting like this.
What "deceit" are you talking about? The doctor in question here was deceived by nothing but his own ignorance, bigotry and callousness.
I don't mean to be insulting, but do you realize how morally insane what you just wrote sounds to those of us who don't share your bias? You are telling me that you are able to determine that someone is faking pain because they are able to smile and play games on a cell phone. That is absurd. Of course people can smile, and laugh, and eat and engage in a whole range of normal behaviors when they are in pain. Do you honestly think people in pain are incapable of anything but grimacing and moaning all day? People exhibit a wide range of behaviors when they are in pain, and we have been socialized to repress our pain behaviors, unlike animals that vocalize pain intensely at the slightest hurt. Secondly, when someone is in severe "level 10" pain, that pain is not usually constant. Pain tends to wax and wane over time and the same guy who was in 10 pain when he walked into the ER might be in 5 pain 20 minutes later and back to a 10 2 hours later. I did a video highlighting just how absurd all this "drug-seeker" nonsense is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coVJHxmYcwY&lc=6fqd87NEKA161o4B1gYCjmBihNsQ4_BmmGnU0U6M9fY&context=C3d1cb11ADOEgsToPDskJ6RSRcX7dJPYXb7zaXW966
It's very telling that so many doctors are so indifferent to the suffering of their patients that they will deny pain relief on evidence as flimsy and ridiculous as this. It's telling that so many of you care so little about your patients that you don't bother to educate yourself about pain and the psychology of pain behavior beyond the minimal training they give you in med school and the bigoted, misanthropic stereotypes you adopt from your "educators" and colleagues. This despite the fact pain is the number one reason people see their doctors or go to the ER.
It is downright depraved that so many doctors will gleefully label people in pain as "drug seekers" knowing full well that that label will prevent that patient from every getting his pain treated anywhere. So what if that means a few legitimate pain patients will leave the hospital and commit suicide, or simply spend an evening writhing in agony wishing they were dead? If you fire a machine gun into a crowd of pain patients you're bound to hit a drug-seeker, and that's all that matters.
Most doctors have not the slightest concern of the moral consequences of guessing wrong. Hell, they have no concern of the moral consequences of guessing right, since even drug-seekers can have real pain and real medical problems. If they had any such concerns, they would NEVER, under any circumstances whatsoever, be willing to play Russian Roulette with the lives of their patients like this. The fact so many of you can and do so willingly play this game tells me more about your ethics than all the shiny-happy, I became a doctor to save humanity bullshit in the world.
So many doctors would rather see 100 patients suffer than see a single drug seeker get over on the system, but then you bristle when I use the word "fascist" to describe that kind of authoritarian cruelty.
Can you seriously deny the truth of what I am saying here? Can you deny that people with chronic pain are denied treatment and treated abusively on a routine basis in this system? Or does that not matter?
You talk about deceit. How would you like to be the guy who spends $2,000 to go to the ER because he's in excruciating pain from a toothache, and is then forced to wait for 10 hours in an uncomfortable waiting room and treated with hostility by the nurses because he dares to remind them that he's been waiting for hours. Then his pain is dismissed and he is sent home without treatment because some asshole saw him smiling or talking on his cellphone. But they still stole his $2,000 while doing nothing for him. Or maybe they give him a whopping 10 Vicodin before shoving him off. That's $200 a pill.
And you call drug-seeking a "scam?"
So what if someone lies to you to get drugs. Why is this such an issue with you doctors? Is the thought of someone you regard as your intellectual and social inferior being able to outsmart you from time to time so galling to you that you are willing to see hundreds of innocent people suffer to avoid a blow to your ego?
I had a doctor admit to me that he realized he wasn't God after missing my hypothyroidism. He was a very nice man but about as sharp as a marble!
I have EVERY symptom in the book of Hypothyroidism with the exception of my blood test and cholesterol being normal. I even have a goiter.
I am an ex- athlete who has never had problems maintaining my weight, attitude, or thoughts. All of a sudden I gained 100 pounds (106 to be exact). My hair was long and silky. Now I had to cut it because Its dry, brittle and breaks off. I've fainted (on more than one occasion), cant breath, My eyebrows are gone, and I'm cold all the time. I wake up in the morning and even after 8 hours of sleep I feel like I need MORE. I also feel as though I've been beaten up in my sleep. My mind struggles to keep up. Back hurts, headache. On the weekends I sleep 12 and 15 hours. And I have mood swings.
All I want is to be me again. To look like a woman again. I'm embarrassed to go out, trying uncomfortably to hold my stomach in and look comfortable. To be able to concentrate and to just genuinely smile. I literally just came from a doctor. Days ago I passed out cold while at work, and today there was blood in my urine. I dont have insurance. I'm a freelancer.
I gave a urine sample. The doctor didnt look at me when he came in. He walked in, said his name really quickly and buried his face in his computer. He asked me what was wrong. I started to tell him and he cut me off. Told me that some women have discharge right before theyre cycles come on. I told him that Ive had my cycle for 21 years and I know that but this is different. I spewed to him everything wrong. he finally looked up and said. Your thyroid blood tests are normal. Your urine test was clear. your not pregnant and you dont have BV. And goiters are benign. Then he says "have you tried weight watchers?" This man never knew me when I was, well.... ME.
I cried a little. Then got angry because I let him bring me to tears. He gave me a script for a yeast infection. I snatched it and left. I come from a family in the medical field. My father a health teacher, My mother a nurse, my sister in medical field, and my cousin in sports medicine. Why is it so hard to get a "doctor" to listen? If I dont do my job, I will get fired. And my reputation will be ruined. He's not the first to treat me that way. I'm screaming for help. I give up for now. When I get the energy I will try again.
Doctors dont understand that people need them. They look at everything as if its the matrix. Just 0s and 1s. A database of numbers and tests. Wont even look you in the eyes and open theyre ears to listen. Our bodies are ours. We know them. And if they cannot help, they should know who can. But never should it be that they wont help. Thats neglect. And a person like me who has to pay out of pocket, its a waste of money.
I am suffering from damage from having septicemia and then Meningitis. I was quickly unhooked from IV and taken home shortly after a spinal tap that was done in the ER. When I was brought back to a hospital less than three hours after the spinal tap I was denied medical help. The rest of what happened is very nightmarish. I am currently being denied any care,tests or treatment and this was done so I could not bring a lawsuit or expose what went on. At this point I just want to know the extent of the damage because the pain I am in is unbearable. My beautiful body is ruined and it makes me want to cry. How does one get the damage assessed if no doctor will give you a requisition to get tests done.
Doctor are just human. It's rare to find human with good heart who think of others before themselves. Doctor have to secure their career. They earn money from it. So, they don't take risk on anything that can give them bad reputation. I won't see a doctor if not necessary. I always have weird symptoms that doctor see it as "imagining" and "drug seeking". I feel humiliated every time I decide to go to see a doctor to cure my illness. Not only they take it lightly, they also just give me what they think I want, medicine!, without really think that I need it. But that med can't cure me and I don't want to go back to see them again. They labeled me as "imagining things" patient. The objective is to be healthy, not to see doctor. So, as long as I can find information from internet and diagnosis it on my own, I won't go to see any doctor because most of them are sucks. Those who are good skill doctor, if not busy as hell doing their job in a third world, then they are in a very famous and luxury hospital that will squeeze every bit of money out from you.
JS.
I'm sorry I have to post again.
I just want to help the woman in 2 comments above who suffer from Hypothyroidism symptoms. I know I don't have any degree. I'm not a doctor. But from her information, I think the doctor missed something when he tested her blood.
I did a research and found that you can have "Subclinical hypothyroidism" the person who have this disease and show the symptoms of overt hypothyroidism is rare. Normally, they will look healthy from outside and miss the treatment without blood test. But some show the symptoms and that's when they need treatment.
If you have "Subclinical hypothyroidism" your thyroid blood tests(T3,T4) will be normal. But you will have high TSH(Thyroid stimulating hormone) more than 10 mIU/L or above normal.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0215/p776.html
http://www.livestrong.com/article/68419-list-symptoms-subclinical-hypothyroid/
http://www.health.co.th/HealthEducationArticle4/Hypothyroidism.html
I don't know if you will come back to this forum or not but I hope you will. I don't know if the doctor tested for your TSH or not but from what you told, he didn't. So please demand for TSH test next time you go to see doctor.
This is the best I can do for you. I hope you have your life back soon and I hope the blogger will allowed me to post this on his forum so I can try to help you.
JS.
Let me preface this by saying that I am about to start my first year of undergraduate study with a planned emphasis in biology and the hopes of eventually attending a medical school.
That being said, the hatred and disgust flying about on this thread scare me. Simply hearing grown adults throwing around such vulgar threats and comments makes my jaw drop again and again. I know that I still have a lot of work to do before I reach my final goal of becoming physician, but there has never been another instance in which I've seriously reconsidered my future career choice more than after reading this blog.
My only hope is that these posts do not represent the majority of patient sentiment, and, to the contrary, are simply a minority opinion voiced in an extreme manner. If not, let me say again: I am scared.
-FCT
P.S. To those who suffered at the hands of the American healthcare system and/or incompetent/unstable doctors: I feel for you. I just hope that you will regain (or even attempt to regain) your trust of physicians in the future. I know many who currently practice and even more who hope to practice; they are good people. Think of those who are budding with talent and want to help others; how great would it be if we could redirect our anger and fear in order to prevent the corruption of the young and innocent students? THAT should be of prime importance right now.
I quit reading all of these comments after a while. I actually ended up here because I googled "I hate working for physician's"....and some of the time, that is true. Some of them are so high up on themselves that in their 10 years of education, they didn't even grasp the basics of common courtesy or respect.
Regardless, I work in an office with about 15 doctors. I would say of the 15, probably 12 of them leave me alone to do my job. The other 3 make me want to quit.
I am overworked, underpaid, and no human on this planet can possibly keep up with the amount of work we have to do. After reading these comments though and thinking about a typical day at work, I realize it is the patients I hate the most.
If I am working in the walk-in clinic, I check in at least 10 patients in an 8 hour period that want to see the doctor because "their throat is sore". Nevermind that there are 20 other people in the waiting room with actual problems, yet Mr. Sore Throat is going to be the one coming up to me every 5 minutes asking me how much longer he has to wait, complaining how unfair the healthcare system is, blah blah blah. You still have to wait over an hour, just like you did five minutes ago. Yes, I agree it is rediculous to wait 2 hours to see a doctor for a sore throat, I also think it's rediculous to even go to your doctors because you have a sore throat. You don't need antibiotics, even if you have strep. You need to gurgle some aspirin for a few days until it goes away. If you're going to wait for 2 hours to see the doctor, I think you need a life, and yes I am rude to you because I have piles and piles of work to do, and you keep interrupting me with your complaints! I used to think the doctor couldn't possibly be as stressed as I am, because I have so much work to do and all he does is get his little clipboard and talk to the patient for 5 minutes, but I figure he probably is pretty close to as stressed as I am, because his JOB is to listen to people COMPLAIN. Complain about their illness, complain about their injury, complain about their healthcare system. I am allowed to tell the patient to save it for the doctor, and by the time the patient gets in to see him/her, they have that much more to complain about - I was rude to them, they had to wait too long, wah wah wah.
Nevermind that I live in ONTARIO, where healthcare is paid for out of our taxes. Now patients complain incessantly how the government plans to cut billions of dollars out of our healthcare. Well I don't blame them. I bill OHIP after every patient visit, and every time you come to the clinic for your "sore throat" it costs the government at least $50.00 for your 5 minute visit. If an 8 hour period, if I check in 10 people with sore throats, you just cost the government $500.00 PER DAY.
Worst of all is answering the phones and listening to you bitch about how you called three times before someone picked up. That's because I'm busy listening to the person in front of me bitching about how they have been waiting for 2 hours and their throat hurts and no one cares wah wah wah. Then to complain about how we are rude to you or incompetent. Doctors are not miracle workers, they are people with a very expensive education. And just like any education, some of them probably barely made it through, and some of them probably worked really hard. Regardless, they are JUST people. Patients need to acknowledge that, and so do some of the doctors. I could careless about their credentials, and I would trust Google just as much as I would trust any regular old GP.
The commentary above by Anonymous may stimulate some visitors to this thread who are interested in reading about the "difficult patient" to go to my recent thread on the "difficult patient" where I also posted that commentary. Perhaps the conflicts between the medical system and patients is that both need a bit further education about the other. ..Maurice.
It is very sad that all physicians are placed into one generalized group and hated as a whole. There is no question that there are absolutely insensitive pompous jerks in the field. I can think of a few right away and I would love to knock their block off. Not everyone is like that. And not everyone can afford the mansions and BMW's that some highly paid physicians can. I have practiced for 7 years full time as an ED physician (board certified) and worked in some of the poorest inner city hospitals. And I routinely work 20 to 30 hours of unpaid time a week staying at work extra and completing charts or even calling patient's at home to check on them because they don't have a primary care doctor (this is in addition to my fulltime work). When patients want a drink or a blanket, I get it for them myself, and I do not consider it beneath myself to change the soiled diapers of seniors, and place bedpans under them. I have always believed in God and my duty to people. I drive a second hand honda not a BMW and I rent (my kids don't have a lawn). But I thank God for this. My own family is not wealthy so I have felt it is my responsibility to help so I routinely give money to many of them on a monthly basis. But I am only human. With so much hate against my profession, I wonder if it is worth it. Even my family members who benefit from my income and prevent me from affording a better life for my family hint that I am a doctor and it is my duty to pay for their bills because I have a better income now. So how can I expect anything better from the public? My husband suggested earlier tonight that I quit. Perhaps seeing this blog was a sign from above. Perhaps it is getting time to leave the field. No amount of caring can counter the incredible hate that exists. Fortunately my husband has finished law school and only has to take the bar now. I always thought we had too many lawyers and not enough phsycicians. I was wrong. I will absolutely discourage my children from entering the medical profession. You do not have to be a physician to be able to help other people. Perhaps what we really do need is one less physician and one more lawyer.
Anonymous, don't give up the medical profession. Certainly what you read on this one thread is biased to the thread title and has no statistical significance. If you "do good" to your patients and family is what is most important for you personally and not what is written to this thread or what you read or hear elsewhere. Yes, medicine is a great and needed profession and with every profession there will be outliers who may give the profession a bad name but I really doubt that if we had all the statistics, your professional life with patient attention and care would not be an outlier but representative of the ethical beneficence to all they serve provided by the profession itself. ..Maurice.
Cassandra wrote me e-mail today about her experience and gave me permission to publish it here. ..Maurice.
I typed in I hate doctors into google, And found your post. I dont hate ALL doctors, and if i was being literal i would have typed I hate being screwed over by doctors. But I read your post and you said how can we improve, let me share my story. Three weeks ago I made a doctors appointment for an excrusiating right ear infection (that i had had for two weeks) because I do not have insurance I tried everything possible not to have to go. When it became to much to bear, and my ear drum ruptured (with no relief of pressure) I broke down and went in. The doctor looked in my ear dx me with an inner and outer ear infection with (i may get this wrong) sangiuos bla bla... He presicribed me amoxicillin, at which time i told him that in the past i have not responded to. He then said i may not have gotten the proper dosage and perscribed 4000 mg daily, along with some kind of neomycin some thing something ear drops. After about a weem of treatment my ear infection was only getting worse. I called the nurse and told her, when she called back she said i would have to be seen again. Um hello, I just paid 150 bucks last week! I did not go back. It has been another 2 weeks and I have finished treatment (although i dc'd the eardrops after i called because through my own research i found that they are contraindicated with perforation of the ear drum. Over the past few days my right mandible has become increasingly painful along with my ear. I assume the infection has spread to my jaw bone. So i grew some balls and called the doctors office back and explained to the nurse in further detail that my infection is worse, that like i told the doctor i did not respond the amoxicillin. That i do not have insurance and cannot afford to come back for the same exact issue, that should have been treated the first time. I was told "we are sorry, but you will have to come back, thats what he said" she didnt even talk to him, she said it right away. So now what??? Im helpless. I have no right as a patient. I am at his mercy wich he will not show. And that is why i typed in "I hate doctors" into google. I feel that the Oath a doctor takes meens nothing. Its very sad and disturbing to know that going to the doctor is no guarantee that you will be treated, and no reprocussions if you arent. I thank you for reading this. I hope to hear a reply. Sincerely, Cassandra
"Anon doctor hater" wrote today the following to the now closed first chapter of "I Hate Doctors" thread. ..Maurice.
Sadly I hate doctors too. And I mean I really hate them. Really. Really. Hate them. And while I agree that one shouldn't make generalizations in this case i must as i truly believe the majority of doctors really suck. I am basing this on my own experience. Let's start with obtaining a propr diagnosis. I've been misdiagnosed not once but twice leading to extreme and unnecessary suffering. In the midst of trying to get "help" I was treated poorly, dismissed, given drugs I should never have been on with my history, and in general treated worse than I've ever been treated in my life. Did i ever get an apology for all their rude dismissive behavior one it was found that i did actually have something wrong which id been trying to say for months? Of course not. I am an active participant in my health. I can't say the same for my doctors. I honestly believe I've survived in spite of them--and would rather die than deal with them again. I've had cancer not once but twice and if it ever comes back I would rather not be treated --- because of DOCTORS--- and how much harm they've caused me in my life and how much i hate them and never want to see another as long as i live. They are useless anyway. I don't think most doctors are very smart or well read, I think they are very arrogant and narrow minded, and don't honestly want to help. They are judgmental & pill pushers. They SUCK at diagnostics. I have only one regret in my life and that is that I've had to see so many. They do more harm then good. I'm sorry for those of you on here who are doctors who do care, are knowledgable & give a damn. Do me a favor will you? Next time you aren't sure what's wrong...or the patients begs you to listen...LISTEN. And believe them. And then try to figure it out and try to help them. Really try. I will never change my mind on this-- the damage is done. You cannot know how harmful it is to be really sick, and be told you arent . Its the worst thing ever--worse than the cancer itself is the dismissive attitude that there was nothing wrong with me. Like i am some hypocondriac who has nothing better to do than sit in your office and be treated like a low life. Before you ruined it i had a life . I was active. I work. I have family and friends that I love. I had hopes and dreams before you destroyed them. You don't know me as a person. You have no idea how strong I am or can be. You sit in judgement and arrogance as I suffered in silence knowing my body was failing me but you wouldn't listen. Had you listened, had you diagnosed me earlier--my life would be 100% different today. So yes I hate all of you. Sorry guys but in my case you earned this hatred and it's well deserved. But I hope one doctor who reads this helps one patient they might have blown off or dismissed. Just one. I challenge every doctor reader to BELIEVE the next patient that comes in with a complaint and to diagnose them correctly WHATEVER it takes. Only then in my mind do you deserve the title behind your name. And know you have the power, by your very position, to do more harm than good. Please don't. No one should ever go through what I had to. ( Anon doctor hater)
On August 15, 2012, Anonymous wrote the following on the closed first chapter of "I Hate Doctors". ..Maurice.
The public are ill informed and are programmed by the shitstem of thinking that health workers should be a calling and are not appreciated for the hard work under difficult underpaid shitstem.Public instead are taught to prioritize intertainment and all intertainers are highly respected and well paid worldwide even though most of them are iliterate.Health care workers
studied hard and nobody acknowledge that.People become irresponsible for dem health and when in pain expect the best care from health care workers!When dem happy,health care workers are treated like rubbish.Better appreciate your entertainers and politicians and please do not complain about healthcare workers when you are in pain,ask your entertainers and politicians to take care of your pains!
I HATE Physicians Too! I am a registered nurse and I use to say to myself that most doctors are rude because they are tired.....being up for 2 days is hard and nurses constantly paging for little things has to be nerve wrecking...see I tried to be understanding BUT I ran across a website SDN.com and read many comments disrespecting nurses and our profession... it was really hurtful and there were pages and pages and I finally understood......They think they are the smartest people on earth and if you are not a doctor then you must be absolutely STUPID! I've heard them at the nursing stations laughing at patients....they are so unprofessional!! Arrogant pompous asses! It is societies fault for holding them skip high they can t see past themselves...they are rude and really if itiz something outside their specialty they don't have a clue.. I currently have a patient that is seening 10 different doctors! This is how they milk our I insurance....I FUCKING HATE THEM!!!
You want to find out if a doctor is worth your pain and suffering we should take away their computers and electronics. Without the advances of electronics, doctors would be forced accept the truth. Doctors are equal to the rest of us, if they are lucky. A lot should be in prison for their arrogance and the pain they have caused.
Anonymous posted the following today on the now closed first chapter of "I Hate Doctors". The following is her comment. ..Maurice.
Agree!!! I typed it in the google search bar because I am 14 weeks pregnant and not feeling good at all.It is all a big money game no one has listened to me at all.I have just been treated like cattle. So far they did 800.00 dollars worth of testing. With no results to show me. I was told they were standard And not my buisness. AND I am in pain and not one person can tell me anything.
The above comment by Anonymous today was in response to the very first posting on the initial "I Hate Doctors" Chapter in 2005 by RH. ..Maurice.
I hate doctors because they do not care about what happens to their patients, they do not listen to their patients, they pretend they are better than their patients, and they do not care about their patients' concerns. It is really difficult to feel any kind of respect for someone like that. I am going to be a paralegal and I plan on specializing in medical malpractice because of the way I have been treated repeatedly by doctors and their staff. Doctors who actually CARE and don't talk down to their patients and can actually HELP patients in a meaningful way are extremely rare and unusual. I have never met a doctor who thought of his or her interaction with a patient as feedback or a reflection on them in any way. I do believe they should be grateful for every complaint filed against them--it is a wake up call and gives them some humility; in fact, it actually makes them more humane since they are, in essence, heartless, soulless, cold, calculating creatures. Maybe in some utopia, the situation that health care is in right now can be different, but I doubt it.
I wouldn’t say that I hate Drs, but I will say that they I strongly dislike them and believe the vast majority of them are getting paid more than they are worth. I don’t like doctors because they don’t listen to me. I have had issues with topical fungal infections my whole life. Because I have been dealing with reoccurring infections my whole life, over the counter meds don’t work. The last GP I saw on this issue suggested that I continue to stray my entire body with athletics foot spray (because it was the only fungicide that worked at the time) and come back in a month if the infection came back. This was after I told him my history with fungal infections and mentioned the fact that the vast majority of over the counter meds didn’t work for me. Of course the infection came back and the second time I saw him, he actually bothered to write me a prescription for a stronger antifungal. When I went down to the pharmacy to fill the prescription they told me that the drug had been discontinued for years. I called my doctor and he told me buy an over the counter med instead, this was after telling the man on two different occasions that that stuff didn’t work for me. So obviously I never went back to that Dr again.
I have also gone to two dermatologist for this same issue. The first one gave me a prescription, the fungal infection seemed to go away and then came back in the same spot. When I went back he did some tests, and pretty much told me he didn’t know what it was, and good bye. The second dermatologist just told me to use an over the counter like my GP did. I told him that they didn’t work, and he still suggested it. What do I have to do to get Drs to just listen to the words that are coming out of my mouth? I’m not speaking broken English here. Do I need a lawyer present to argue my case for me?
I still have the stupid fungal infection on my shoulder and it’s been there for years and year. I’ve utterly given up on Doctors and pretty much excepted that I’m going to have this disgusting, and ugly fungal infection for the rest of my life. The thought of that makes me utterly want to cry, but I can’t not for the life of me get a Dr to listen to me. I’m always of a mild temper when taking to Drs. I’m not screaming or arguing with them, so what is their problem? Why aren’t they listening? I’m completely frustrated. My only hope now is that maybe Alternative medicine can help me with my problem, since Medical Drs are obviously not interested in helping me.
Anonymous from today, I can understand your frustration about the medical attention and care you received. I could be that the doctors you have seen are frustrated with a patient with a condition which apparently has not been resolved by treatment. Could there be some environmental condition which allows your fungus to exist? Has the lesion been previously biopsied or cultured? You need to find a physician who has time to take but also listen to a full, detailed history which may provide a solution to your skin problem. Don't give up. I am sure you will be able to find a skin specialist who will find the answer and ease your frustration with doctors. ..Maurice.
I have had quite a few nasty,and or cold detatched women & a few men doctors,and there are also a lot of either nasty,or cold and uncaring women nurses,and medical assistants,and they all have *NO* business even going into the medical profession! They should become prision guards and wardens instead!Prisoners don't need or deserve kind caring people!
Many therapists,psychologists and psychiatrists also should be included for either being uneducated and not understanding about severe babyhood,childhood,teenhood etc abuse and how it horribly effects the victim and the endless emotional pain and developmental problems it causes!
They all should have the excellent book,Toxic Parents By Dr.Susan Farward as their psychological training manual!
Dr. Bernstein,
Had you been my doctor/surgeon, I'd probably not be in the position I was in. I'm one of the few patients who was misdiagnosed by a doctor and I, stupidly, attempted to work with him. Not once but several times. He repaid that by dropping specialist care and influencing two other doctors against me. One of those doctors, I hadn't even seen him yet, and he's already ruined the relationship. This is after it is known I'm not a sue type or happy person. I did make the mistake of saying that he never apologized and my church couldn't believe it.
After my second surgery in 9 months with this surgeon, he failed to round on me when I was in the hospital. He told my parents he would see us that afternoon. My mother went home and came back to the hospital, waited over 4 hours for him, and when he never showed, ended up having to go home in rush hour traffic in one of the notable bad traffic areas. She's over 70 years old.
He then ended up dropping me from the practice because I had a bad habit of correcting his office notes. I ate a large amount of "headaches", one paragraph said I was 16 months out from surgery, 3 paragraphs later he said I was less than a year from surgery. I made 2 many phone calls he said. I produced a call log of the last 4 months from the phone company showing I made 6 calls in 4 months.
Without a doubt, if the medical profession would police its own, we wouldn't have the lawsuits, the finger pointing, or doctors like this. At least that is what I think.
Your ideas?
KBD
" if the medical profession would police its own..." Doctors can't get into another doctor's office and see what is going on at the time. The only option for patients who find that the doctor with whom they are associated is practicing medicine in an unprofessional manner is to "speak up". Every patient has the right to "speak up" if they feel they are mistreated. First to the patient's doctor and if the response is unsatisfactory then, if the behavior is clearly unprofessional, to others who have responsibility to investigate such as notifying the state medical board in the U.S. or the appropriate licensing board in the case in other countries. "Speaking up" also includes the possibility or necessity to tell the doctor "I am now terminating our relationship" and then doing. ..Maurice.
I hate some doctors (not them personally, but how the system makes them deal with patients), but I like and respect a few of them who manage nevertheless to be good doctors.
What is a good doctor? There is only ONE criterion, as far as I'm concerned. The doctor has to care deeply, passionately, in his or her very soul, about GETTING THINGS RIGHT.
All good things follow from this. To get things right, the doctor has to first LISTEN to the patient very, very carefully, from a position of completely open and accepting respect. This is where many doctors go wrong from the start.
Not TRULY listening, not TRULY believing the patient, not taking what the patient says as being the truth (as the patient sees it)--this will not lead the doctor to the real truth, to getting the diagnosis right, the treatment right.
Finding out that the doctor was NOT listening to you and did NOT care about GETTING THINGS RIGHT, was making WRONG ASSUMPTIONS about you or your symptoms, is devastating because you've wasted time, money, parts of your life.
Of course doctors aren't perfect; of course they can't get everything right. But they have to CARE, personally, about getting it right. And if they find out they got it wrong, they have to feel genuine concern about it and learn where they went wrong. It doesn't mean they have to fall all over the patient apologizing or whatever, but they have to show themselves and the patient the truth.
I hated the doctor who, when I pointed out to him that he'd gotten the formula for normal sed rate in women BACKWARDS, said "Well, in medical school I was taught that it was THIS." He couldn't imagine he might be wrong and didn't care to find out. He got so many things laughably wrong, both generally and in my case, that it would take me hours to list them. Yet he DIDN'T CARE TO CORRECT HIMSELF. Much less say, thanks for helping me get it straight. This did so much harm to me in not getting a diagnosis.
I loved the doctor who was my PCP for four years and always, always, listened carefully, took notes carefully, and was always working from a position of CORRECT assumptions and CORRECT knowledge of my symptoms and history, because he CARED about getting it correct. He did this because he treated me with complete respect and open listening. Like an equal. This didn't mean he did everything I wanted or agreed with everything I said. But when he didn't, he had GOOD reasons for not doing so, which he explained to me openly. I trusted him greatly and I cried when he moved away.
To sum up--doctors just have to LISTEN and TRY strenuously to GET THINGS RIGHT. That's all I ask in a doctor. You can be late, wrong, a cold fish, I don't care what--as long as you care about correcting any wrong assumptions or knowledge and acknowledging this to me. Because if you do, you will LISTEN and most often end up getting things right.
Of course a big problem is the system that doesn't let doctors have enough TIME to LISTEN and get things right.
JW
JW, I agree. Unfortunately most doctors have to work within a medical system that makes it much more difficult for the doctor to be "loved" for what they do and particularly how they behave, in many ways in the encounter, toward the patient. There must be some changes such as allowing the doctor more time with each patient. More time will allow more communication and I think that impaired communication is a major factor leading to patients finding fault or "hating" their doctor. In my teaching of first and second year medical students, the emphasis is "listening to the patient" and as students they do have time. What is worrisome is later in their careers there will certainly be less time and thus less listening.
The challenge is to provide more time, have the doctor see fewer patients but still provide the financial support to the doctors' work to keep the doctors in practice. And with the increase in the number of patients predicted in the new United States Affordable Care Act, the burden on the present doctors will only increase unless the system makes an equally active effort to get more new doctors into that system.
I see the ads on TV about joining the Armed Forces for a career. How about some TV ads regarding becoming a doctor for a career. Just as important contribution to society. Just a thought. ..Maurice.
Dr. Bernstein, I agree 100 percent with everything you wrote. Not enough time equals impaired communication, and that's where a huge problem lies.
I recently skimmed through a book called "The Empowered Patient," which has SOME good advice, but the author must think we're all idiots if we believe we can insist on doctors keeping to their schedules, being on time--and at the same time absolutely insist on having every single one of our questions answered during the appointment, no matter how long it takes! That would take some kind of science-fiction alternate reality where you can compress two hours into fifteen minutes.
Yes, I too wonder what's going to happen January 1, 2014; I'm very happy that most people can now get insurance, but are we going to have to change from 15-minute appointment slots to 5 minutes!? I already feel guilty if I see a doctor more than twice a year, despite having some undiagnosed and thorny problems. I try to figure out most stuff myself now (because that's what usually ends up happening anyway).
Thanks very much for this blog (which makes us frustrated patients feel better just by venting!). I do agree that much of the "hatred" for doctors stems from systematic problems such as lack of time and communication (leaving out the posters who are merely irrational). Most people know that most doctors are good, smart, well-intentioned people who really just need time to do their job well so that they don't have to substitute quick, and often wrong, assumptions about a patient and their symptoms for a thorough consideration and exploration of what's really going on. The fundamental problem is, not enough money to allow doctors TIME to do their jobs well.
I think we (society) could help this problem by changing how we think about life-prolonging treatments. I am in my late 50s and no longer get cancer screenings tests and will not treat cancer if I get it. Better to die at a reasonable age than end up demented, blind, or paralyzed, etc. like ALL the old women I know, who, let's face it, are a decades-long drain on their families, our medical system, and future generations. Read "Boomsday" by Christopher Buckley if you haven't--it's a hoot, but maybe it's not such a bad idea.
Thanks again,
JW
As a doctor it makes me sick reading some of these comments - fibromyalgia is a load of rubbish for example, I've not met anyone with it who wasn't a malingering waste of space. My ex-girlfriend had so called fibromyalgia but she was able to climb a fairly large hill with me one night. I showed her the door pretty quickly. It was clear she was just lazy, a result of the lax UK benefits system. A lot of so called "symptoms" are just a normal consequence of growing old. I feel like rubbish and tired all the time and everything hurts but I realise there is nothing wrong with me except the fact that I am no longer young. As far as I am concerned you actually have to be sick to qualify as a patient. I find female patients to be the worst by a long chalk and yes, a lot of their so called "symptoms" are indeed psychosomatic and often caused by an inadequate sex life as freud so rightly deduced. And I agree about the sore throat thing. When I have a sore throat I put up with it like a man without whinging like a little girl, unlike most of my patients, and I go to work as usual. And if you think I am some incompetent uncaring jerk of a doctor, let me tell you that I always go above and beyond the call of duty to help the genuinely sick and I am very highly regarding by the vast majority of my sick elderly patients and colleagues. I have never faced litigation as I believe I have only made one clinical error in my whole career which I am completely honest and open about when I was an inexperienced junior doctor working under incredible pressure with minimal supervision, and no one blamed me at all (except for myself). Everytime a patient has disagreed with my diagnosis, I have been proven to be right. Every single time. If I am not sure or I don't know I say so. A lot of problems cannot be cured by western medicine, I am honest about this and I expect my patients to accept this and not blame me for the fact that I am not a miracle worker. If you think you can do better than me, you are welcome to give it a try. I bet you will last 5 minutes before you have had enough. Try seeing 50 patients in a morning with only 2 nurses to help. That is not an exaggeration. And everyone left happy(ish), despite some having to wait for an hour to see me. And I am not a slow worker by any means but it is physically impossible to see so many walk-in patients without running late. Especially since most of them did not need to be there - it was an emergency clinic. Unfortunately, as always, the genuinely ill suffer and have to wait longer because of the demanding, entitled worried well who feel "tired all the time", who cant be bothered to go to work because they have a cold or who have a fungal nail infection etc etc. The patient who really takes the biscuit is one stupid (working class of course) woman who complained that I could not stop her feeling jealous about her (non-cheating) husband, despite my best efforts to be sympathetic and reassure her. Since when has (completely normal) jealousy been a medical problem? If you can show me a drug that can cure jealousy I will eat my stethoscope. I am sure you all agree that what she really needs is counselling which is what I tried to persuade her to undergo. This is what I am up against day after day. Its never ending. No wonder most doctors hate their lives, jobs and "patients"( many of whom are not patient at all). Except the genuinely sick, needy elderly patients many of whom I genuinely love like my own parents. I wish I could help them more but you worried well make it so difficult for them (the patients) and us (healthcare staff). You deserve to burn in hell. GP
Interesting. GP, I would be also interested to read your evaluation of those patients and their view who are writing to my long running "Patient Modesty" thread. ..Maurice.
Had a look, dont have a problem with anything they say. Patients have a right to see a doctor of any gender they choose. I prefer male doctors personally if I am ever forced to see my own GP by my wife. I hate doing intimate examinations on women. I avoid it at all costs. Its embarassing, time-consuming (you have to often find a chaperone which is harder than it sounds) and often unnecessary. 99% of medicine is history and observation - with diagnosis is often clear within 1-2 minutes if you shut up and listen, which I admit not many doctors know how to do. Examination is often for show. I always offer female patients the opportunity to have intimate examinations done by female doctors. That's actually not true - I usually quite sneakily TELL them to see a female doctor (or nurse) for intimate examinations as it saves me loads of time (a properly conducted one will take 5-10 minutes) while I organise pelvic scans and hormone profiles (which takes 1-2 minutes). As you can see, every second counts. Besides, I probably already know the diagnosis. This is what some patients seem to find hard to understand - that tests and examinations are to confirm what the doctor already knows. Its no surprise that Sherlock Holmes was written by a doctor - those same skills of history taking/interviewing, observation and deduction are invaluable to detectives as well as doctors. And I agree with what another commentator has indicated above - that a sign of a doctor is a deep concern with getting the diagnosis and treatment right (rather than with merely keeping the patient happy). I prefer a live unhappy patient to a happy dead one. GP
GP, I took the moderator's liberty to again present what you just wrote here to "Patient Modesty: Volume 59" for those visitors to consider. Thanks for your participation on either thread! ..Maurice.
I hate doctors too now. I say now because I loved my pediatrician when I was little and a teen. He was an non-arrogant nice man. Then I was misdiagnosed by a cold sleazy snake psychiatrist after some bitch slipped me PCP in high school and I started to get anxiety attacks. I was put on the worst drugs possible and they ruined my life in so many ways. My abusive legal guardian had something to do with that to but that is another long story. I found out later I had an electrolyte imbalance and that is why I did not feel well, but that loser never even gave me a blood test! He just slapped bogus labels on me the dick! I hate ALL kinds of doctors now, especially Vets. I have not met ONE doctor I have liked since I was 18 and they are all cold stuckup uncaring and are total money worshippers. What I want to know, is who the hell is THE LOSER who started all this doctors are better than other people BULLSHIT? It was not always like that in the US, country doctors were never arrogant and DOCTORS ARE NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ANYWAY. Especially considering how much they misdiagnose, kill patients through malpractice and bad pharm drugs and are just all around assholes (and ice queen bitches). At least you come off like you are nice Dr. Bernstein but I just hope it isn't just some fake act. I think any doctor who reads our comments should be aware that if we don't like the medical community it is your own fault. You are not more than human. You burp, faurt, pay tax and are going to croak like everyone else and what ever smarts you do have you didn't get from yourselves. So the arrogant façade just makes doctors look like the stupidest and meanest people on earth. And where is the esteem in that?(and you know what, ditto for nurses and medical receptionists who I hate also, I mean take the rod out of your asses ya think?)
The posting below is by June Gardner written 2-19-2016. ..Maurice.
I hate doctors because I learnt the hard way that too many are very dangerous to our health and well-being. I was tricked into an unnecessary radical hysterectomy by a group of unscrupulous doctors involved in this surgical racket. They lied and said I had a number of things wrong with me, including non-existent cancer (ALL BLATANT LIES) and harmed me irreparably because they needed guinea pigs to train and experiment on at a , a teaching hospital who allows catastrophic errors to be repeated again and again. Too many psychopaths have medical licences. Why do you think they are the #3 killer after cancer and heart disease.
Thank you for having this thread. I've finally reached the point of giving up on physicians. I had Stage 1a grade 1 endometrial cancer. I wasn't menopausal at the time of the surgery. It was obvious I was nothing more that a fast pelvic to the gynecologic oncologist. They put me through a surgical menopause cold turkey. When I complained repetitively about the problems, I was told it was in my head. I told the doctor that before he tried to crack my head open he need to address the obvious physical issues. I left him. I've never forgiven the surgeon, staff, or hospital for their behavior.
Thank you again.
A
I do respect doctors because they have studied a lot to get in their positions. What I don't like and trust are the devices that are used to give a diagnostic. In 2010 I got to emergency room with chronic pain in the right side of my abdomen- where is the gallbladder. After sonogram CT and other specific investigations, they didn't get to a conclusion. TWO YEARS of pain, sonogram....CT with the same conclusion, the gallbladder functions normally, and it is in good shape. Unfortunately, doctors don't tAke into account patient's symptoms, they make decisions based only on analysis result. Finally, after two years of pain, the doctor decided to make a sonogram through my stomach and finally the mystery was solved. In surgery raport it is written that the gallbladder was perforated( I was lucky that inside was something like a paste). How can you explain that all CT and other sonograms didn't show this? Who was wrong, the device or the Dr. who gave an interpretation? Can you trust those devices to put a diagnostic?
I dislike most doctors mainly due to, as you put it, a "paternalistic whiff" that emanates from them with every visit. I find most doctors dismissive, condescending and worse, dangerously ignorant. In my experience, as a care giver to my elderly grandmother, I find doctors unsympathetic to the plight of their patients, which often borders on exploitation.
Here is my experience: My grandmother's bladder cancer recurred. Her surgeon was insistent that she would be fine and that the tumour was localised on the basis of a CT scan done a month ago. He did not ask us to do another scan pre-surgery. After a radical cystectomy, he was dismissive of the histopathology report that showed lymph node metastasis, assuring us that with the surrounding organs removed and clear of metastasis, she'd be fine. Worse, after complaints of pain he was insistent that the cause was impacted stool, something that our nurses insisted it was not. We discovered metastasis and the degree of spread after getting a second opinion, followed by a CT scan.
This process cost us a month, which could have been utilised in exploring chemotherapy (an option now closed to us) as well as immunotherapy and targeted therapeutics. We continue to explore options. Doctors also made her come in a continuously deteriorating condition and in enormous pain to hospital twice a week, and still seemed to miss her overall malaise. Home visits were not considered at all, nor were they willing to work along side private nursing staff, technicians and our family doctor.
This suddenly changed as soon as the CT scan results with metastasis became known. Doctors became defensive, they suddenly started cooperating with technicians (we could now have negative pressure wound therapy dressings done by a technician at home rather than visiting the surgeon -- something he had dismissed completely, earlier), and her pain was suddenly taken seriously, with fentanyl patches being prescribed.
Unsurprisingly, I absolutely resented the attitude of the doctors at the hospital, and questioned them incessantly -- always for my questions to be dismissed.
I got the feeling that the doctors felt that everything on the internet should be disbelieved. They had a special disdain for journal articles. While I admit that most articles published in PubMed need lots of refining before they can reach the clinical stage (indeed, my training is of a translational scientist), there are several sources which are very trustworthy as far as advice is concerned, including the NHS, cancerresearchuk and WebMD.
I expect a doctor to at least listen to our concerns, rather than close themselves off on hearing the word "internet". I wonder if they feel threatened by internet, knowledgable patients and cheapening technology.
I found that the trust I placed in doctors (as in spite of my questioning I did not interfere in their decision making, assuming they had better knowledge and experience) was misplaced.
I now am caring for a terminally ill grandparent whom I am very fond of and seeing her waste away. There were chances of her cancer at least going into remission, had we had time -- she could walk, eat and function well before surgery, now she is on IV with a wound that is yet to heal, and pees through her intestine into a bag, all in spite of paying what is more than twice the average annual middle class income for her "treatment".
Note: I am not from the USA, so my answer needs to be taken in the context that our system is not an (completely) an insurance driven system. The treatment cost is in proportion to middle class income in my country.
PS Forgive me if I seem to rant, but I need to spew.
Actually CG, ventilation can be therapeutic and it would seem from reading your comments that with your extensive and continued involvement in the care of your grandmother such ranting and spewing may well be therapeutic for you. And that benefit may allow you to continue your care and attention. ..Maurice.
The search words that brought me to your blog were "ambivalent about doctors" and I seriously doubted that I would find much on the topic, so this is an interesting thread. Hate seems like such a strong feeling to have toward someone providing a service to you, depending on the health system you are treated in. If you're not happy go somewhere else. But this ambivalence has followed me through the years and to different doctors. I have moved to so many when I have become upset. Now I am at the same clinic for two years as I am forcing myself to own up to whatever problem it is that I have with your profession. Unfortunately, my doctors have to stick with me too until I can sort these feelings out. I try to be fair and apologize when I have over reacted to things. As I get older I realize that it is going to be in my own best interest to establish a rapport with my doctors. Maybe the need for that causes anger. It's hard. I hate feeling observed like a specimen and I hate feeling like I'm being processed and needled around in a petrie dish. I hate the need for that "relationship" with all its boundaries and I both feel for those who have to maintain them on a daily basis with multiple patients. I also wonder how they could be so emotionally controlled. I've considered some more personal causes for this love/hate thing I feel. Maybe it has something to do with watching my mother die at a very young age and no one being able to save her. Maybe it's because no one saved me in the horrible years that followed. Now that I am older I consider that it's because you belong to an exclusive group and have access to information which I often do not. The world works around you to support you in delivering care to others and what a wonderful thing to be a part of, but this puts you at the center of everything with everyone catering to your needs. Perhaps this is deserved with all you have to face. Perhaps that could be the problem. You and those who work around you are the hopeful solution and as a patient we are part of the problem and to some, but not all physicians... a bit of an inconvenience. I think this is an important thread. What a wonderful topic to discuss especially with all the changes that have taken place in healthcare with mergers and acquisitions and the corporatization of medical facilities and employment of previously independent physicians. I know this thread has been open for many years, but I felt the need to add. I'll look forward to going back through the thread to read more.
Renee
Renee, I put your comment also on my long running Patient Modesty thread, currently newly started Volume 79. In recent Volumes, the men who write there find inequality in how the medical system fails to listen to or attend to their modesty-dignity concerns and feel that female patients are listened to and attended to their concerns to a much greater degree than males. Here also is a link to Volume 78 bearing over 170 comments. ..Maurice.
Okay. Thank you, Dr. Bernstein. I'll follow.
Renee
I do not believe it is inappropriate to 'hate' doctors, they are mostly pompous asses who lie and are only in the business to turn a buck at someone's misery. I have known people to go into the business specifically for the income, they treat patients like walking cadavers. In my experience so called medical professionals are simply in it for the income it provides, they could care less about the human seeking treatment even for the most benign much less the life threatening. People go to so called medical professionals for care in their weakest moments only to be treated coldly and without any mind as to their feelings. It is tragic and hurtful to be looked upon as a walking cadaver, but I am told, that is exactly what they are taught. Do not engage a patient, merely treat the symptom.
I don't hate doctors. I hate being victimized by doctors. Right now I'm being refused 360mcg of pulmicort 3 times a day by the VA because "360mcg twice a day is the maximum dosage." Even after showing the package insert stating 720mcg twice a day is the maximum for adults they continue to deny me. The thing is, I've been intubated and trached so many times for so long that my airway had to be reconstructed. I can't even be safely extubated if intubated again. Hopefully my private pulmonologist, that saved my life many times, can adequately explain to them why I need my inhaler prescribed correctly because my only other avenue for not suffocating is buying prednisone online from India. It has taken years to stabilize enough to oxygenate without high doses of prednisone off of a ventilator but they now pose a very real threat to my continued existence. And they know it. They just don't care because there are no consequences. They want my lungs to fail so their students can practice and study on me. There is no other possible outcome for my not taking my medicine the way I'm supposed to. I'm leaving this for the DA just in case. Hopefully, if I don't survive, due to the foreseeable nature the doctor will be criminally prosecuted for negligent homicide. O7172 23/11/1981
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