Bioethics Discussion Blog: Patient Dignity (Formerly:Patient Modesty):Volume 99

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Monday, May 13, 2019

Patient Dignity (Formerly:Patient Modesty):Volume 99






















Does  the above animation tell us anything about the
patient-doctor relationships which has been amply described
and detailed on this blog thread?  Could any of the patient
reactions to the actions of the physician or the medical system
simply be a natural reflex to some actions by the profession which
were not intended to be traumatic? Could some actions of the
professionals be well intended (in this example to test for neurologic
reflex impairment) and  yet turn out to appear that it was not fully
 considered?

In this analogy, by working together, could the patient have reminded
the physician, based on the patient's previous experience that the doctor
may be sitting too close for the test?  Usually, patients know more about
themselves and their reactions (both emotional and physical) and the
physician deserves to be informed in advance. So..the message again
to the patient: "Speak up".
 ..Maurice.


Graphic: From https://gifimage.net/interrogatorio-medico-gif-3/
via Google Images

48 Comments:

At Monday, May 13, 2019 3:30:00 PM, Anonymous F68.10 said...

Hi all.

I'm having a "debate" on another blog when it comes to the term "medical kidnapping".

While I'm the first who would claim that "medical kidnapping" can be a very legitimate practice to protect a child, I also acknowledge that the practice of removing a child from his parents can be a traumatic experience.

I therefore provocatively argued the following.

1. These practices can technically be kidnapping, as it is indeed a forceful removal of a child from his parents.

2. It is indeed done for medical reasons, reasons that can be fully justified.

Therefore I argued that we should not shy away from calling this practice "medical kidnapping" in its own right. I argued it a bit differently on the other completely pro-medicine blog, but essentially the reason would be the following: when such things happen, and a kid is removed from his parents, I believe it would be best that the State states things rather bluntly and not cower away in technical jargon. Technical jargon seems to rhetorically forbid parents their feelings/beliefs that they have been wronged in some way. Naming a cat a cat would have the effect of making explicit to the parents what the situation really is, and it would push the medical establishment to make more or less publicly a case that their move is justified. If the issue is couched in technical jargon, then everything seems intrinsically fine, the medical establishment can simply claim it's in its own good right and dismiss the parents as cranks or deluded nuts.

So calling a cat a cat, IMO, would have the beneficial effect of making the debate more open, and both sides could come with their ethical arguments.

Of course, most of the time, the parents would lose their arguments. I'm fully aware of that. But I do not think we should deny them the recognition that they have been wronged in some way. Even if they are dangerous deluded nuts.

It's not exactly a question of "patient dignity", but to me it still is a question of "dignity".

And do not get me wrong: as far as I can judge things, I'm all for "medical kidnapping". I'd simply wish we called it by a name that properly reflects what it is.

What's your thoughts?

 
At Monday, May 13, 2019 9:40:00 PM, Blogger Maurice Bernstein, M.D. said...

Before I go into the topic of "medical kidnapping", I would like to first go back to the "nitty-gritty" of "good doctor" vs "bad doctor". Here is what a participant on the medical education listserv wrote today on that topic.


I would like to add to the conversation about the “bad doctor.” I suggest that we discourage the use of language that reinforces a binary stereotype of “the good doctor” and “the bad doctor.” Using this language puts us all at risk.

It’s likely that none of us are quite as “good” as we could be, i.e., we are all always “works in progress,” Labelling someone as “bad” removes the possibility of improving through advanced training, rehabilitation or remediation, or ... generally achieving growth as a physician and as a human being.”

Egregious behavior is likely criminal behavior, and it is up to the courts and our medical licensing boards to decide when someone needs to be removed from society, or from the practice of medicine, respectively.


What do you all think of the pros and cons of defining doctors that way?

With regard to "medical kidnapping", I think it is a matter of "patient dignity". Who is the patient? The child.

And the child deserves caring parents if the behavior or ignorance of the parents demonstrate uncaring and who indeed are the cause of the transfer of the child away from them.

Or is the term "kidnapping" a slap on the reviewing physician or the protective societal system.

Fortunately, I never was involved with a pediatric issue. My medical responsibilities, however included screening for "elder abuse". ..Maurice.

 
At Monday, May 13, 2019 10:49:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think what might turn any good person into a not so good person ( Dr or otherwise ) is long hours. Delayed meals. Not taking care of their own needs.
All those volumes ago when Giftbearer's doctor flipped out and treated her like dirt and did all in his power to block her from getting care in the future. My bet is that he'd been pushing himself beyond his strength. A series of 12 or more hours a shift. No days off for x amount of days. Missing family events that he really didn't want to miss or maybe he attended but was too whipped to enjoy it. I don't know how often that kind of thing turns into violence but it definitely COULD! JF

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 6:51:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JR said:

That is just it--there is not a competent or reliable means of disciplining or removing doctors. Here in central Indiana, most doctors are part of a large practice that labels them as independent practice from a hospital buy in reality they are actually hospital employees. The hospital carries the malpractice insurance on them as the hospitals are mostly self-insured. Of course, for drs. & nurses when there is an investigation, the first thing that is looked at are the EHR which of course in the overwhelming majority of cases to do not say "I abused or did wrong" so the investigation is dropped. The EHR allows for very little evidence to point to any wrongdoing thus allowing these sociopaths to continue business as usual for years. Oftentimes, the if they are caught they receive very little in disciplinary actions & rarely lose their licenses. So the thought that boards or government oversight controls or even oversees the issues would be laughable except for the harm done by these criminals. Also, why not label them as bad. There are some offenses that they cannot recover from nor should they be able to continue to practice. Once disgraced or caught, why should they be so special to be allowed to continue practicing? If a teacher is criminally convicted of say child molesting, they loose their license & are put on the child molesting list. Since what the medical community does is so vital to people's well-being shouldn't their offenses be treated equally important?

During our walk last night and through most of the ensuing night, my husband & I were discussing why he was the chosen victim? If any investigative team cared, his MRs point to the fact the nurse falsified or outright lied about many major areas of care. Should that not be a signal to them that she has issues? She is willing to lie about care so would that not point to she may be willing to lie about other things? The fact she lied about many other issues in the MRs points to the fact that she was concise & knew what she was doing. What about him made her pick him as her victim? How often does she do this? Why do others remain silent when someone who saw him exposed should know right from wrong? What makes a dr. think they have the right to take away a patient's right to choose what treatment they receive? What prompts them to lie? Why is this not thought of as being wrong? JR

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 10:21:00 AM, Blogger A. Banterings said...

JR,

The whole independent contractor thing for doctors is BS! Read the IRS page: "Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?"

A simplified version is the IRS 20 Factor Test – Independent Contractor or Employee?

The fact that the hospital has so much control over them, they are employees. California has even stricter regulations, see The new ABCs of worker classification in California.




-- Banterings



 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 2:49:00 PM, Blogger Maurice Bernstein, M.D. said...

So far, I have had no specific response to my assumption related to the animated graphic for this Volume: Usually, patients know more about themselves and their reactions (both emotional and physical) and the
physician deserves to be informed in advance.
Do you think that is a valid generalization? Or do you think "speaking up" is worthless because the physician and the medical system is just plain "deaf"? (...and it takes a "kick in the face" to provoke attention?) ..Maurice.

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 3:26:00 PM, Blogger A. Banterings said...

Dignity is a human right and is important to every individual but can become compromised during healthcare. Being treated with dignity and involved in decision-making is associated with positive outcomes, such as high patient satisfaction (Beach et al, 2005). In a review of the World Health Organisation (WHO)’s general population surveys in 41 countries, most participants selected dignity as the second most important domain in care - only ‘promptness of care’ was more highly rated (Valentine et al, 2008). The Amsterdam Declaration recognised dignity as one of the main rights for patients (World Health Organisation [WHO], 1994).


Read more about Dignity, Privacy and Confidentiality.



-- Banterings


 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 3:26:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr B.
A kick in the face might work for that one doctor but for the whole system it would more likely take a serial killer leaving lots of notes behind and posting messages from his victims cellphones. JF

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 3:37:00 PM, Blogger Biker said...

Dr. Bernstein, I think the graphic is appropriate. Given they aren't likely to even ask, we need to tell them of specific needs or preferences that we have. Whether they listen to what we say is a different matter.

One of the things I learned in my long corporate career as a manager is that for some people one need only hint as to what you want. For others you need to hit them in the head with a 2X4 in order to get their attention. As a manager I'd tried the gentle approach first and only ramped up to the 2X4 as needed. Healthcare is no different. No need to start out confrontational if a polite request will address the issue. If you start with the 2X4 approach when it wasn't really needed you may find yourself needlessly labeled a problem patient. If anyone is going to be fired, best you be the one firing the doctor rather than the doctor firing you.

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 4:42:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr B
I hope you know my last comment was mostly a joke. Or sarcasm. The reflex test isn't likely what any of us are taking about anyway.
I do blame my former family doctor for how long I had to suffer with my gallbladder systems because I told him on my first visit I thought it was my gallbladder.
I had taken care of my grandmother at home when she was having gallbladder symptoms. He was her doctor also.
Because he was ready willing and able to string me along ( more appointments equals more money ) I lost the best paying job I ever had. Before that I'd never even received a write up over attendance.
My surgeon doctor I love him to the moon and back. THAT doctor saved me. Maybe he wouldn't have had to if my family doctor wouldn't have been such a selfish #!@$&€hole! JF

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 5:18:00 PM, Anonymous F68.10 said...

"Or is the term "kidnapping" a slap on the reviewing physician or the protective societal system."

I do not know. I reflect on my past, and I thought to myself that I would have liked to be medically kidnapped at one point in time. The term "kidnapping" feels right for me. So I wonder why all the hysteria about the term by parents of "medically kidnapped" kids and doctors saying "no it's rescue". This way words are twisted to fit an agenda doesn't resonate with me at all. I do not see (any more) any negative connotation to the term "kidnapping". Seems like everyone is walking on eggshells here, where we should indeed be upfront about what the procedure entails.

I acknowledge my subjectivity could entirely be warping my view of the issue.

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 5:30:00 PM, Anonymous F68.10 said...

I opted for the kick in the face solution, ultimately. The medical establishment is stone deaf. That's a fact. I really tried to negotiate and explain things out. Pointless.

I had diverse luck with MDs on a more personal basis. One apologised to me, now that I think about it. He was stone deaf too initially, or rather flabbergasted and in a state of sideration at my story, and acted very coercively. But he apologised in the end. I'm really grateful for the apology.

Apologies are something MDs need to learn how to do! It's no big deal saying you are sorry about the things went down! Moreover, that's what they think, so why can't they just say it???

MDs I chose where mostly fine people where you could try to sort things out. MDs I didn't choose where much more problematic people, always wary paranoiac mind-readers, highly susceptible. There wasn't any point trying to put boundaries with them: they weren't really there to respect my boundaries. Some did try though.

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 7:34:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maurice

The depiction although it is a reflex certainly dosen’t suggest physical violence against any healthcare worker as that is
a felony in most states. But look, are there two sets of standards? One set for the physician and another set for the other
medical staff, nurses, techs etc. Apparently, it appears neither of these two are on the same page. Let’s hold a quiz for
everyone in healthcare. Let’s see if any physician working at a hospital can recite one (1) core value of that institution
or would you think that don’t need to know any because of their training? Let’s see if any of the nurses, medical staff
can recite one (1) core value of the institution for which they are employed.

I’d be willing to bet not one can get any correct. I’d be further willing to bet most nurses, if not all can recite any requirements
from the nurse practice act. There needs to be a paradigm shift in how privacy and dignity are intertwined in the aspect of
healthcare delivery.

PT

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 9:14:00 PM, Blogger Maurice Bernstein, M.D. said...

I want all my visitors to dip their toes into a graduation ceremony of "192 new doctors" who graduated a few days ago with their MD degrees from the school where I teach (USC Keck School of Medicine). Jimmy Kimmel was the commencement speaker at the school's 134th (!) ceremony. Here is the link to the USC news:
https://hscnews.usc.edu/commencement-2019-laughter-rings-out-at-ceremony-for-class-of-new-physicians/
Of course, Kimmel in recent times on TV is known for his engagement in medicine with his publicized newly born son who had a congenital heart defect.

The current (finally a female) USC medical school dean also spoke. Read what she told the class and let us know whether you think her words will mean anything substantial to these "new doctors". ..Maurice.

 
At Tuesday, May 14, 2019 10:48:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The long hours... That's a huge part of the problems. Sometimes like when mass shootings or natural disasters or circumstances happen , many people have to be treated at once. In that case there's probably no way around working long hours.
In general though, working long hours is a walking time bomb. Tired people don't do their best and closely resemble demons from Hell
I said 12 hour shifts but I strongly suspect that many doctors work longer shifts than that. Also it very much matters the conditions people work under. If I'm working slavishly hard or if I'm working on Easy Street , that makes a difference in how hard/easy it's gonna be on me and the quality of work I'm able to do.
Workplace bullying in medicine has a sabotaging effect.
What I would like to see happen is for students to prove they have good studying skills. Prove early on that they CAN work an extra long shift. And after that they get paid $10 dollars an hour to study to become doctors. Once they become doctors, they receive doctors wages, minus $10 dollars an hour until they pay back what they owe.
Also it would be good to only learn what is actually going to be needed.
Probably someone might say that's unsafe. But it's unsafe to put deterrents in front of students who would/could make wonderful doctors.
JF

 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:29:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JR said:

What is amazing that even KEPRO doesn't think if MRs are falsified that it is a problem. They only investigate what is in the record as it is a legal document. So it is no wonder there is so much fraud and misdeeds in medicine. They know if they put it as being so in a MR it is written in granite. There is absolutely no incentive for honesty. If a medical provider (dr. or nurse) wants to do harm they can bc all they have to say in the MR is they followed whatever procedure. Of course, as w/ most criminals rarely do they advertise they have committed a crime so the in the MRs the dr. isn't going to say he did not get consent or the nurse is not going to say that she chose this patient to sexually abuse. The electronic systems make their coverup too easy. They literally just have to pick & click. This just reconfirms in our minds that it is not safe to seek hospital care where there is a chance they can use drugs to control & manipulate. Bc once they use drugs all the things you have done to maintain dignity & respect no longer matter to them.

No, I do not think that any commencement speeches will make any difference. They are just ready to leave the university behind, celebrate, & get started. Most already have in them what they are going to do. There probably are signs but they do go undetected just as those signs oftentimes go undetected for other types of criminals. It is usually not until something happens that someone then says they saw something strange in that person. The Jimmy guy might inspire someone who actually is star-struck but the school person probably wouldn't make a difference. JR

 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 5:07:00 AM, Blogger Biker said...

Dr. Bernstein, it looks to have been a wonderful graduation ceremony. Congratulations to one and all. Given the sexual abuse scandals the school endured during their years there, I wonder to what extent it had an impact on them. Will they look the other way when they see their peers abusing patients, potentially letting it go on for years and the victims then numbering in the hundreds or thousands, or will they act?

Just based on the photos it appears that the class was majority-female. With the new Dean also being a woman, I wonder what the impact will be of the slow but ongoing shift at the physician level to what will eventually become a female majority. Will things get worse for male patients rather than better? Or are schools such as yours instilling in the students the concept that male patients are equally deserving of the privacy, respect, and dignity generally afforded to female patients?

To make it real, would any of the female graduates have allowed JR's husband to be left there fully exposed had they been present? Assuming they'd of covered him, would they have reported those nurses for having left him lying there the way they did? You've been clear as to what you've taught students, my question being did they take those lessons to heart? I know we can't know the answers to these question, but I wonder nonetheless.

In fairness to female physicians, I will note that the males who have long dominated physician ranks and that of medical schools and hospitals did little to nothing towards ensuring male patients are treated as the equal of female patients. They instead allowed the nursing and allied ranks that were dominated by women to perpetuate the males as 2nd class patients standard. The problems most men face come at the nursing and other non-physician levels, not the physician level. The question that follows then is will a female physician dominated society give the female non-physicians even more latitude to do as they will with male patients?

 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 7:31:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JR said:

We received our CMS response. Of course, they found no wrongdoing. Even though I received letters saying both hospital investigations were over, I received a phone call yesterday saying they are still investigating both. However, based on how they investigate I know the hospitals will get away with what they did.

For those of you interested, how they investigate is to review the medical records. If the medical records have been falsified like my husbands were, there will not be any entries to confirm abuse like the nurse saying, "I chose to sexually abuse this patient by exposing him in a room full of people for entertain purposes." Of course, she was smart enough to cover her tracks as the fully automated system with pre-selected phrases work to only their advantage. I would imagine that many medical records are not actual facts but rather made up lies as to what should have been done. CMS is stupid and/or ignorant if they think medical records will list abuse. As for the consent, the 2 heifer-hags signed it so it must be so. The dr. did not put into the MRs that he had been drugged 10 minutes before arrival w/ 100mcg of fentanyl so therefore he was incapable of understanding what was going on--even less capable of making a decision. He does not remember being given the whole consent speech along w/ optional treatments, lifestyle changes, rx medicines, and why he was bad to have a heart attack. They also ask those involved if they abused. There again, like any smart criminal they will deny wrongdoing. They do know how things are supposed to be done and will absolutely attest that is the way they did it. They also follow them around to observe as if they would sexually molest if their presence. The Medicare investigation is a joke. They only add to fire fuel that will make it grow. They shouldn't even bother to have such an oversight dept as it is totally useless. I doubt if they would recognize abuse even if it did happen in front of them. So what I have further instilled is that patients have no rights and no one will help them if they have been abused or violated. Absolutely no on cares! This further reinforces that we will not seek any hospitalization or emergency care. Our fears are not groundless and our realization that abuse is allowed to happen and thrive is also very real and confirmed by CMS. JR

 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 9:22:00 AM, Blogger Maurice Bernstein, M.D. said...

Another comment from a medical school dean regarding separating "good" and "bad" medical students and residents as published in the medical education listserv. If you have a clearly expressed and rational argument or support to this presentation, I may have it published on that listserv. I think it is important to have constructive comments from the public, from patients to present support or arguments to those who are in charge of medical school and residency education. ..Maurice.


I would like to add to the conversation about the “bad doctor.” I suggest that we discourage the use of language that reinforces a binary stereotype of “the good doctor” and “the bad doctor.” Using this language puts us all at risk.



It’s likely that none of us are quite as “good” as we could be, i.e., we are all always “works in progress,” Labelling someone as “bad” removes the possibility of improving through advanced training, rehabilitation or remediation, or ... generally achieving growth as a physician and as a human being.”



Egregious behavior is likely criminal behavior, and it is up to the courts and our medical licensing boards to decide when someone needs to be removed from society, or from the practice of medicine, respectively.



The desire to have some sort of character-predictive tool as a part of the admissions process sounds reasonable, but it is unattainable unless we want to implement FBI-type of clearance procedures to attempt to definitively determine character traits before hire(admission) by in-person interviewing of extended family members, grade school teachers and neighbors. There may be additional criteria that we could include in the admissions process to assess character, but this needs to be done carefully. We do not have a crystal ball that can allow us to predict a 21-year-old’s entire future. Medical school applicants are usually in their early 20s, and their brains, neuroscience tells us, do not reach adult maturity until age 25. It is inconceivable that we would have any grounds that would allow us to sort medical school applicants, at 21-years of age, into “good” and “bad” piles based on their inherent character as human beings. The admissions processes at the medical schools that I am familiar with, do a pretty good job of looking at the available data and using it appropriately. We must be aware that those of us on admissions committees have our own implicit biases, and conscientiously work to prevent our own implicit biases from adversely affecting the admissions process. It could become temptingly easy to assign a “bad character” label to applicants in groups other than the identity group that we identify with most closely. This could potentially exacerbate the disparity and social justice issues in the medical school admissions process.



There are opportunities, though, for us to recognize unprofessional behavior and intervene after a student has matriculated into medical school. Often, those of us in positions to do so, do not intervene swiftly enough, or definitively enough when unprofessional behavior is demonstrated by a medical student or resident. This is a failure on our part, as medical educators and academic physicians. Recognizing and accepting the obligation to respond when a professionalism problem is identified while a medical student or resident is in our course, or on our service, seems to me to be the best time and place for these difficult conversations to take place, and appropriate actions to be taken. Taking advantage of these opportunities to intervene and address the professionalism issue, no matter how difficult it may be to do so, is the best way to improve our own performance as guardians of the profession.


 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 10:41:00 AM, Blogger Biker said...

Dr. Bernstein, I can understand the difficulty in fully vetting med school applicants into good vs bad columns but once they are in med school the question becomes how much effort is given over to weeding out the bad ones. It is pretty tough to hide fatal character flaws throughout 4 years of schooling.

Likening it again to my corporate experience, the bad apples may make it through the interview and reference checking process but once on the payroll for a couple months you know whether they're going to work out or not. Every time we let our emotions get in the way by giving the new hire that is a bad fit more time to come around, it would just prove to be more difficult and more costly to get rid of them later. In the case of flawed med students, it ultimately is the patient that pays the price though, and perhaps that is why not much effort goes into weeding out the bad apples. It isn't the school that pays the price.

 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 12:38:00 PM, Blogger Maurice Bernstein, M.D. said...

I wrote the following to the medical education listserv. Thanks Biker. ..Maurice.



One of the visitor and writer of comments to my blog thread has been a long time corporate manager.
He wrote the following today:
=========================================
=========================================
Dr. Bernstein, I can understand the difficulty in fully vetting med school applicants into good vs bad columns but once they are in med school the question becomes how much effort is given over to weeding out the bad ones. It is pretty tough to hide fatal character flaws throughout 4 years of schooling.

Likening it again to my corporate experience, the bad apples may make it through the interview and reference checking process but once on the payroll for a couple months you know whether they're going to work out or not. Every time we let our emotions get in the way by giving the new hire that is a bad fit more time to come around, it would just prove to be more difficult and more costly to get rid of them later. In the case of flawed med students, it ultimately is the patient that pays the price though, and perhaps that is why not much effort goes into weeding out the bad apples. It isn't the school that pays the price.

==========================================
==========================================
So my question to this listserv is in all
of the published cases of physician "misbehavior" or even legally worse, how often does the public and particularly the medical profession will be informed from what medical school that physician was trained. Yes, the hospital or other institution where the physician worked is named but where is the name of the medical school of training? If the name of the school is not published, do all medical boards and schools who read the stories have the routine practice of actually begin scanning their, perhaps many years old, student records in order to determine the origins and "pathophysiology" of what has occurred?

By the way (and I really don't know), in the long run, in the expression of my blog visitor, "does the medical school pay the price"?

 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:54:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to respond to what JR said about how the investigations aren't really investigations after all.
From what I have seen at the nursing homes I have worked at, I'd have to say I agree with her.
One instance of this being the case: we had a relatively young patient/resident at one of my Ohio nursing home jobs. She had suffered brain damage from injury.
When wearing a brief ( adult diaper taped on the side her pants would fall down. Some of the nurses even seen it happen.
We CNA's started trading her briefs with another patients pull ups because the other woman was in a wheelchair and briefs work fine for wheelchair patients or patients in bed. Management stopped us even though they were told why.
After this poor girls pants fell down in front of an appreciative male resident, it was reported to the state.
Their investigation was somebody showed up. Her pants didn't fall down in front of the investigator. Case closed
Nobody asked around. I already told about the elderly woman falling out an upstairs window while the state inspectors were in the building.
Also what JR saying about care being documented being equivalent to care being delivered in the eyes of the law. It's true.
The nursing home I first mentioned in this post got caught red handed though when they made staff document one certain lady was faithfully attended to every 2 hours. She sat in a gerry chair and was particular about her did her. Didn't sleep in bed. And sometimes went 24 hours without being changed. More investigations should include hidden tape recorders in break areas and other areas where staff cluster to talk. JF

 
At Wednesday, May 15, 2019 11:37:00 PM, Blogger 58flyer said...

I had my prostate ultrasound/biopsy done today. At 0845 I did the Cirpo and Fleet enema. Then at 0945 I took the Valium. At 1045 I arrived at the center. I was very keyed up and I did not feel any different with the Valium than without. My neighbor drove me to the medical office but I could have driven myself as it turned out as I had no effect from the Valium. My heartbeat was about 125 which told the LPN I was very nervous. BP was 160 over 98. I brought along a sample pack of colonoscopy shorts and asked if there would be a problem with me wearing these. The LPN said she had never heard of this and thought it was a great idea. She took them to the doctor to inquire if this was OK for my procedure. The doctor approved them and I was allowed to put them on. I was determined to wear them anyway regardless.

The procedure went well. The LPN came into the room with the male ARNP. I was too close to the edge of the exam table and she had me move more to my left so I wouldn't fall off the table. I felt comfortable with the procedure shorts on. The doctor came in and got to work, first with a DRE. I noted the position of all in the room and the female LPN was positioned directly behind me facing away from me. Her job was to put the samples of the biopsy into the proper containers for submission to the lab for analysis. The male ARNP stood in front of me to monitor my signs of comfort or discomfort.

The doctor first began with a DRE. That went just fine. It told me that the colonoscopy shorts weren't a problem for the doctor. When he introduced the rectal ultrasound probe that really hurt. Once inserted the pain went away and he did the US. Upon finding that a suspicious area needed biopsy he announced such. He then proceeded to administer the lidocaine, and that was fine as I barely felt it. He then proceeded with taking 12 samples. Again, I barely felt it. Just a pop. 12 times. Nothing to it.

With the procedure over I got dressed. My only complaint was that the LPN came back into the room as I was still zipping up. At one point I was laying on the table and the door was fully open. I will address this at the next procedure which will be the cystoscope next week. I think I educated the LPN about the colonoscopy shorts and she thought it was a great enhancement to patient comfort. I asked the front office to make a copy of the information packet to give to the LPN. Perhaps she will use this in her future patient encounters.

Other than what appeared to be a casualness about male modesty needs, I think it all went well. I will address my concerns next week with the cystoscope. Hopefully, that will go well.

58flyer

 
At Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:16:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JR said:

I think there are going to have be cameras and recording devices. However, that is certainly an invasion of privacy of the patient. When most are observed, they put on their best face. There maybe could be a pre-test and post-test about patient dignity and respect. It should probably be its own course and use patients who have been violated to tell their story. Your university could pilot this program. You could follow these students to see if it does makes a difference.

There is another issue. There are a lot of drs. from foreign countries. They are educated in the foreign countries. Their cultures are very different from ours. The ER dr. at the hospital from hell was one of these drs. He went to G____ School of Dentistry for his medical degree. The country he is from is very different from his native country and has different beliefs. I think there is a certain amount of prejudice and downright hate already built in for Americans especially older, white males.

I think the politically charged climate in this country has made the older, white male the target of hatred as they infer that everything that has gone wrong is their fault. There are even companies in their advertising pointing to males needing to change their attitudes toward women. I know from social media profiles that some of the nurses are very active in these attitudes. I think the opportunity of my husband, an older, blonde-hair, blue-eyed, DRUGGED male presented, they took the opportunity along w/ the dr. to get even for all they think this class of males is guilty of committing. Not to mention, he was also labeled an older gay male w/ a husband which would have been our son bc he was the one addressed.

Certainly the dr. should have known better than to have a naked, drugged patient lying there for 30 minutes before the procedure. He should have known that he was using coercion in the "Medical Decision Making" as a patient cannot be drugged beforehand, cannot be lying on the procedure table being readied for a procedure while he is coercing consent, be totally naked, and ignore the family in the "discussion". So why did he do this? Is he stupid? uneducated? didn't care about patient's legal rights? just like committing medical & sexual assault? What about the nurses? They do are as culpable as they knew it was wrong but did it anyhow. The Cardiac ccu nurse is just a sociopath. She will continue as now she knows she got away w/ it so she has more confidence in the system to protect her.

I think having more females in the medical profession as drs. or administers will only lead to more abuse of male patients. As it is now, what is happening is very protected and the patient who has been abused has very little recourse. The investigations are just as big of a sham as the Patient Bill of Rights these hospitals kill trees over to print it on. What we need are medical people who recognize that patients are actually people and all people have rights and we are not things for them to control and manipulate. They are actually do harm with their attitudes rather than helping us as they make it so many do not seek medical care. JR

 
At Thursday, May 16, 2019 12:20:00 PM, Blogger Biker said...

Good report 58flyer. The LPN, doctor, and everyone else involved likely learned something valuable yesterday.

I had a non-intimate ultrasound this morning and was assigned a male sonographer. We talked about the training involved to do his job and I inquired about whether sonographers specialize. He then starts naming a few specialty areas and I chimed in "and the dreaded urology ultrasounds". He says he does many "male ultrasounds". I said having had a female do an embarrassing testicular ultrasound on me I am glad to know this hospital has a male for such things. He said "that's why they hired me".

 
At Thursday, May 16, 2019 1:59:00 PM, Blogger NTT said...

Good Afternoon:

System on Life Support

Let me start by saying, the empathetic & ethically moral healthcare worker is on the verge of extinction in the American healthcare system today.

Today’s healthcare environment is infected with a disease as powerful and lethal as the MRSA super bug. The disease is called Voyeurism, Perversion, & Greed VPG for short. If this disease is not met head on & totally eradicated from the system those few empathetic, ethically moral healthcare workers left will be extinct and the system will be unsafe for all.

We have doctors going around taking sexual advantage of their patients. Next, we have nurses going around leaving patients unnecessarily exposed at length for them and their colleague’s entertainment and picture taking along with stealing drugs earmarked for patients. Then finally you have corporate greed taking each and every cent possible from patients any way they can. The disease is running like wildfire through the system currently. You see, read, and hear about it daily in the media.

The ONLY way the American healthcare system will survive, is if the VPG super bug is totally eradicated.

To completely eradicate this infection, there has to be a fundamental change in thinking within the healthcare community.

To begin to rebuild a world class organization, first thing the medical community must do, is really deep soul searching & find that empathetic, moral and ethical person that used to be there as they went MIA decades ago. You can’t operate a system the likes of which hasn’t been seen since the days when Florence Nightingale organized care for wounded soldiers back in the Crimean War without these essential traits.

As healthcare workers have readily shown for decades, they don’t like “snitches”. Snitches have for the most part always had to face retaliation; bullying, & being blackballed by other staff. And if the person being snitched one had any pull, the snitch also faces the real possibility of being fired. Case in point the CRNA in the Twana Sparks case was fired for snitching on her. She had integrity and was fired for it.

Remember Do No Harm & Choice, Privacy, & Respect (CPR) go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other & expect to build a world class healthcare organization.

Now, management must make it univocally clear throughout the entire organization; There will be NO repercussions towards anyone in the organization who snitches because “there’s no such thing as snitching because there is no such thing as a snitch anymore.”

Using your new found empathetic, moral and ethical sense of judgement, if you see something at any time or place while on the job that isn’t morally, ethically, or legally right, speak up and say something, so the organization can correct it.

By speaking up you help eliminate the weak links in the frame work whereby making the organization as a whole, stronger & safer for all in the long run.

It’s time the medical community got back to putting the patient first. The needs of the patient outweigh anything else so that each patient, can get the best possible outcome from their medical encounter.

Finally, the healthcare industry MUST ELIMINATE GREED.

Greed will kill us all if we don’t tag it, bag it, then permanently eliminate it!

The new healthcare theme must be patients BEFORE profits.

Without this course of action, you will never kill the VPG super bug which will leave America with an unsafe healthcare system that NOBODY will be able to afford nor want to use.

That then begs the question. Are the American people ready and willing to work TOGETHER to eradicate the super bug and build a healthcare system built on the foundation of Do No Harm & (CPR) that will have the rest of the world in awe of what America can really do when She puts her mind to it and Her people show how they worked TOGETHER and MADE IT HAPPEN?

That’s it for now.

Regards to all,
NTT

 
At Thursday, May 16, 2019 2:00:00 PM, Blogger NTT said...

Good evening:
Good Evening:

On another note.

Last month I sent out that letter I previewed here to the editor of to the top 100 newspapers by circulation for publication. Since then, I have monitored the sites and through today, not one newspaper has seen fit to publish the letter. Letters to the editor is a bust. Will need to find another way to get this issue before the public.

That’s it for now.

Regards to all,
NTT

 
At Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:26:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sending private messages to a large number of people might work.
Also a large number of people complaining that their concerns are being ignored. Maybe when we make complaints, we should require a type of receipt so it can be traced who is stopping the communications. That doesn't apply to newspapers but hospital complaints.
In addition to voyeurism and greed are HUGE part of the problem is cowardice. Everybody's afraid of making waves. Endangering their own jobs. Making coworkers angry...
JF

 
At Thursday, May 16, 2019 7:55:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NTT

Excellent comments. I don’t think our healthcare system is on life support, it’s DOA (dead on arrival). I want to mention
something that our readers need to appreciate and that is this. In my 40 years in healthcare I’ve noticed that nurses only
snitch on other nurses when their is something to be gained. Now they constantly stab other members of the team in the
back constantly, physicians, techs etc and yes even patients. Nurses will tell the patient’s physician lies if the patient’s family
feels that their loved one’s nurse is not doing their job etc.

Nurses stab other nurses in the backs to make theirselves look good in the eyes of their director. This backstabbing, blood
slinging contest which rages constantly has its own collateral damage on patient care. They hate their job, hate their patients
and hate their life. Now, back to Dr Twana Sparks and the Crna. That Crna is just as guilty as everyone else in that room. She
knew and saw this go on for years but decided at one moment in time to complain,why? Her job was on the line. It’s been
mentioned that there was some relationship issues that went sour between her and Dr Sparks but we won’t know the truth.

I’ll say this, a Crna is a Certified registered nurse anesthetist has an equal if not greater responsibility to the patient not only
as an advocate for to a higher standard of patient care. She knew these male patients were being groped and assaulted, there
are no other words other than these to describe this. The law says you must report sexual assault immediately, not 2 years
later when it suits you when as you know she is a nurse, thus she pulled her knives out to see how much blood she could
spill. All those people need to be in the same cell as Dr Nassar. It just makes you want to puke your guts out.

Does it seem to you that people in healthcare get away with this Crap. If it happened in a daycare or at the grocery store
or at Walmart people get cuffed and thrown in the slammer like, right now. Why is this subject matter not debated more
often by those in healthcare. This issue should be the highest priority among hospital administrators, Chief nursing officers
and ethicists. Instead there seems to be more attention spent on wether some adult can take their out of the hospital or
some gay man should or should not be entitled to any surgery he or she wants.

The priority is how patients who drop $4 Trillion dollars into an industry have to pay to be assaulted, sexually assaulted,groped
and leered at. Verbally abused, neglected, laughed at, given a super bug, the wrong medication, wrong surgery, judged,
murdered, stolen from, steal the patient’s identity, slept with ( boundary violations) and raped. We spend more money towards
healthcare than we do on our automobiles and in some cases our homes. Does this SHIT happen to us( listed above) when
we make other purchases, NO. Why does it happen when we as human beings are at the lowest point in our lives, we we are
I’ll. Well, you know, some people just like to KICK you when you are down!

PT

 
At Thursday, May 16, 2019 11:35:00 PM, Blogger 58flyer said...

Biker, Thanks, good to know you had the right conversation with the male sonographer. They need to hear positive feedback. Picture a fast moving freight train. Lots of tonnage moving in a certain direction. If you want to move that freight train along a different course, you have to do it incrementally, an inch at time. It's not going to happen all at once. Just too much energy going along the intended path. Each time we have the conversation with the conductor, or engineer, we can move that train a little more towards the right path. Over time we can move that medical care freight train to something we men can live comfortably with. But, it will take a LONG time to do that. I only hope my son will live to see the day when he will be finally regarded as a real human being by the medical community. For me, at this point in time, it is a constant uphill battle.

PT, some really great points. I am just wondering when you are going to write the book on the real reason men avoid healthcare. Maybe you can derail the current healthcare freight train.

58Flyer

 
At Friday, May 17, 2019 6:32:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JR said:

Why is this stuff allowed to happen? That is the question. Apparently, the medical community is like a sacred cow who is allowed to eat your prized orchid, crap on your lawn, etc. It seems there is nothing in place to oversee them and furthermore, they know it. If a patient tells the investigators that medical records were falsified, why would they use the records as if they were gospel? How stupid! Why would they only go by what the medical records say as if a nurse is going to note I molested that patient? Again, how stupid! Why even have "investigators" when the outcome is known before they even investigate?

PT is right, any nurse or staff member that witnesses abuse and does nothing to stop it while it is happening and doesn't report it immediately is as guilty as the actual perpetrator. Most of the time when abuse is happening, the patient is drugged and unable to protect himself/herself. Part of a nurse's duty is to protect the patient and to be their advocate when the patient is unable to.

My husband will continue to see a doctor in an office setting and get tests as long as I am present but he will not seek emergency or hospital care. We can control what happens in an office setting but the really large issue is when there are drugs administered and that is when patients loose total control. There is no way of preventing what happened previously or even predicting which nurse or dr. will be more likely to do it. It has been a double whammy to have a procedure done that he did not want, know about, or consent to and then to be sexually abused. In order to avoid being raped, women know not to walk in secluded, dark places at night and kids know not to take candy from strangers so the only conclusion we know is to avoid the places where he was criminally assaulted. No amount of therapy will ever make these places safe for us. The only thing that will make these places safe is change and for those who commit the crimes to be in jail and lose their licenses to practice anywhere.

My hope for those who had a part in his/my abuse from the first hospital to the hospital from hell is that they have a life full of pain and suffering. I hope they find no peace bc they have destroyed our lives and probably lives of other silent victims. I hope their God or fate will take care to see they get what they deserve. I hope that not only will they suffer here on earth but on judgment day, they will also answer. For those who gave him the drugs, I hope their lives become full of drug addictions as it would be cosmic payback. Maybe they already have an addiction and that is why they harmed him. But in any case, here's hoping. I also have these same hopes for all others who abuse victims such as in nursing homes. Whenever I see a news article where someone has victimized a dog or cat I also wish the same for them. Take for instance the man who baked a small dog in an over should also be roasted. This is where I am in agreement w/ the old testament. Punishment should fit the crime. However, this country turns a blind to patient abuse bc most are afraid of them and put them on a pedestal. They don't understand that medical people are just people and have their flaws and the ability in them to commit horrendous crimes and are more likely to get away from it bc they are protected by the law and regulations. If only patients had such protection. JR

 
At Friday, May 17, 2019 7:31:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

PT
I agree that Twana Sparks x flame reported her for her own personal reasons and not because she cared about the patients.
But there's no possible way all the staff that witnessed/laughed about the abuse could be fired and put in prison.
Making such a threat would likely backfire because those nurses would swear up and down THEY never witnessed anything.
Also how could any patient care happen with 75 percent of the nurses missing?
Don't you think a better plan would be to call them out but give them the chance to name the worst of them. Sort of like plea deals?
Also, so they just don't throw under the bus whoever else they don't like, secretly tape record them. I know that is inadmissible in court but jobs can fire for just about anything. Often the reason stated on the termination papers are completely different from the real reason.
JF

 
At Friday, May 17, 2019 1:11:00 PM, Blogger NTT said...

Good Afternoon:

JR, you asked “Why is this stuff allowed to happen?”

There are many reasons some of which I will go into here.

It starts with the caliber of the people. As I said earlier, there are very few empathetic, ethically moral healthcare workers left today. Most are there for the paycheck not the welfare of the patient.

Next, you have to look at who’s supervising these people. What kind of character is in their makeup? Are they morally & ethically sound or are they too just in it for the paycheck and maybe a laugh now & then? If they’re in it just for the paycheck and the laughs, then the subordinates under them will have free reign unless a manager who puts the patient’s welfare first, gets wind that patients are being abused for workers entertainment.

Then you take a look at facility management. Are they hands on kind of people that lookout for the welfare of both the patients and employees? Are they making sure they are staffed with the best caliber people and levels are sufficient enough that no patients are neglected? Or is the management team one of those that places profits before patient welfare? It that’s the case, I don’t want to go there.

Then finally you have what I consider to be the biggest reason this crap is allowed to continue.

For decades now the United States healthcare system has been allowed to run under a veil of secrecy and police itself. They want NO outside interference in their matters. Proof of that lies in how Yale New Haven Hospital (the biggest employer in the State of CT), recently used its influence to keep the CT legislature from requiring that women undergoing gynecological surgeries give explicit approval to a pelvic exam beforehand.

The time has come for the veil of secrecy to be permanently removed and all healthcare institutions start being totally transparent with the public.

The way things are right now, when someone violates a patient, the facility goes into what I call “damage control mode.” They will do EVERYTHING in their power to keep the issue out of the media. They’ve had decades of practice at it and are VERY VERY good at it.

Once the issue is secured in-house, the perpetrator is given time off, maybe take a token class or two, then allowed back into the fold where they can pickup where they left off whereby making it a totally unsafe environment for patients.

This kind of crap has to end. The perpetrator should be handed over to the authorities along with all the evidence to face charges and if serious enough, have their license permanently revoked.

There need to be a national healthcare Do-Not-Hire list available to ALL healthcare institutions to keep these people from going to another state & picking up where they left off.

Finally, both physician and nursing medical boards must be address. All boards MUST have a civilian majority so that the medical members do not just give their medical pals a pass all the time. Case in point the TN nursing board.

The board has 12 members. 11 medical people & ONE token civilian. Guess how the voting is going to go.

There’s a case there whereby Radonda Vaught a former Vanderbilt Hospital nurse was recently charged by authorities there with reckless homicide and patient abuse in the death of a patient she gave the paralyzing drug vecuronium instead of versed to her patient. Evidence shows she made multiple errors along the way to giving her the drug.

When the case was brought before the TN nursing board, they just said she made a mistake that anyone could have made. Live & learn and decided there was NO reason to take her license. There’s no way to know this but maybe if the board had a civilian majority, she might not have her license today.

What we desperately need and don’t have today, are people with influence over the industry that can take what the medical community tells them with a grain of salt and do what’s right for the patient.

That’s the only way, this nightmare will end.

Regards,
NTT

 
At Friday, May 17, 2019 1:12:00 PM, Blogger NTT said...

Good Afternoon:

58Flyer two things.

First.

I like your analogy of the fast-moving freight train. Problem is the physician gender landscape is changing at a quicker pace. Soon there will be more female doctors who will hire female assistants and their male patients will just be told to “suck it up”. We need the male population to put that beer down, get off the couch, and start speaking up on this issue.

Second.

For your recent prostate ultrasound/biopsy you stated you brought along a pair of colonoscopy shorts. Were they from Covr Medical? If so, which garment did you get? Thanks.

That’s it for now, thanks for listening.

Regards,
NTT

 
At Friday, May 17, 2019 1:31:00 PM, Anonymous F68.10 said...

"If a patient tells the investigators that medical records were falsified, why would they use the records as if they were gospel? How stupid! Why would they only go by what the medical records say as if a nurse is going to note I molested that patient? Again, how stupid!"

And that's when there are documents around... when there are no document around, or fully bogus document... That's even tougher.

Check this out:

https://bcombudsperson.ca/sites/default/files/OMB-Committed-to-Change-FINAL-web.pdf

There are copies of medical certificates in this report. I find them "hillarious".

 
At Friday, May 17, 2019 5:00:00 PM, Blogger Biker said...

I agree that healthcare self-regulation more protects the interests of doctors and nurses than it does patients. Civilian oversight is needed for charges involving behavioral matters, but non-medical civilians are not qualified to judge medical issues. Reconciling that is problematic unless we were to have separate boards.

For most of us, the nudging of one provider and one practice at a time is the most effective course of action we can take on a day to day basis. Surely that is how my urologist came to have a male nurse and that hospital having the male sonographer I spoke with yesterday, and my dermatology practice now allowing for full skin exams without female observers.

NTT is right that the demographic shift that is going to result in women becoming the majority at the physician level likely doesn't bode well for men. At the same time women will become the majority in it will hospital and medical school administrations.

The larger problem is that healthcare reflects society as a whole and at present society has little concern for male bodily privacy. The men have no modesty or shouldn't have any modesty mantra is so deeply ingrained in our culture that few give a 2nd thought to what men deal within healthcare settings. Society says the rights of female reporters to have equal access to college and professional athletes in locker rooms outweighs the rights of those men to bodily privacy. Society says the same for prisoners and for teenagers in youth facilities. The rights of the female staff to have those jobs outweighs the rights of the men and boys being forcibly exposed to them. Society says the same for police and in the military. Female staff have the right to their positions and the rights of the males the police interact with and the soldiers the staff interact with are subservient to the rights of the female staff. It is endemic throughout society. That is plays out daily in healthcare settings is generally accepted by society.

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 4:04:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JR said:

F68.10,

Read through the link you provided. Bc Leslie didn't to leave against medical advice was reason enough to have her committed is unbelievable. Also, the hospital from hell uses the rubber stamp type of medical records as they use the Epic system which delivers boilerplate phrases so entries from like procedures match and they are less likely to give out information that would hurt the facility/staff. This systems makes it easier for them to falsify information. Also, the one dr. who said a patient was put in bc they had disorganized thoughts & speech should come to the US to put most of the candidates running for Pres. in a facility. There is no truth or dignity in medical care.

Biker,

The boards need a civilian majority bc w/o it, things will continue to be swept under the rug. At DDS, where I worked going to college, we had a group of doctors that reviewed the medical & give us their input. We would read their input, ask questions, and review the medical, technical, & regulations. It does not necessarily take a dr. to understand medical procedures. More highly skilled laypersons w/ no ties to the medical community would be fair to all. Of course, these positions should change so as to retain integrity bc as w/ anything corruption happens.

As more and more women enter the physician's field, hospital care is going to worsen for men. With all this talk about abortions becoming tougher, too many women are getting upset that men (especially a certain demographic) are controlling their bodies. So guess what, when a man enters a hospital guess what the female hospital is going to do--control that man's body by any means necessary. There is a climate in this country of punishing men. You can control what happens to you when you visit a doctor's office or even a hospital for a test. The point you lose control is when you are having a procedure and afterwards. Of course, in ER you have no control even though when you are very ill you should expect they would not add to your misery but then is the time they seem to enjoy inflicting misery even more. If there are drugs involved, that is how they control you. As w/ my husband, even though he told them the drugs caused severe harm, they used them anyhow. Their need to control was much greater than their concern for his health & safety. Isn't American healthcare the greatest? It will be even greater when it is socialized bc then they will make no effort to respect any type of individual rights. JR

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 1:04:00 PM, Blogger 58flyer said...

NTT,
I agree that the future of men's health looks bleak. I had a friend of mine tell me today that he went to a doctor recently since he has not seen any doctor in 30 years. It was a female doctor and she had a female assistant come in and be present for the hernia exam. He said the assistant didn't look away but instead engaged him in conversation. He assumed she was a nurse.

I've said this before, it's going to take legislation for there to be change. The medical community has long demonstrated their disregard for the dignity and well being of men. How and why this is true can be debated forever. Debate will not change anything. Venting on a blog site will not change anything. The medical community will not suddenly wake up and out of the goodness of their hearts start treating men with the respect they deserve. It's going to have to be legislated.

Let's look at the voting rights of women for example. At one time as we all know, women were not allowed to vote right here in America. There were many female activists who fought for change. In the end, it was MEN who voted in majority to allow women the right to vote. I can only hope that women will join men in the fight to be treated with the appropriate professionalism in healthcare in this country.

To answer your question about the procedure shorts, mine came from Prime Pacific Health Innovations. You can find them online and order them right over the phone. The phone number is 1-800-223-9374. They come in small/medium or large/x-large. I have a 36 waist and the small/medium fit me with room to spare. Even though they are designed with colonoscopies in mind, you can reverse them and have the opening in the front for procedures like a cystoscope or urodynamics.

58Flyer

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 3:20:00 PM, Blogger Maurice Bernstein, M.D. said...

In general, as Moderator, I do not accept advertisements on this blog. However, I think the garments described here unique and pertinent to the specific discussion involving patient modesty issues and therefore I am allowing the information to be published.

By the way, you have no idea (or maybe you do) of the number of posters, particularly from foreign countries are writing their ads to this topic or other topics on this blog. Some topics which are selected have no relationship at all with what ads have been submitted read, yet the posting starts with "I love reading this thread". ..Maurice.

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 3:48:00 PM, Blogger Biker said...

58flyer, the woman who observed your friend's exam was most likely not a nurse but rather a Medical Asst. Some MA's have had some small amount of schooling to be certified, others have only had on the job training. It doesn't take much training to stand there and stare at male patient genitals.

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 7:34:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maurice

You mentioned that you get those who say “ I love reading this thread”. Can you clarify? Are they reading this thread just
for fun or are they contributing? One would think that if you don’t have issues with the healthcare industry you certainly have
better things to do. I’m not a fan of AOC but when she asked big pharma why Americans pay $2,000.00 for a medicine that
Australians pay $8.00 for in front of Congress that should get a lot of people’s attention.

If people read this blog for fun or entertainment then I feel very sorry for them. One day the ugly, evil healthcare industry will
rear it’s ugly head, bite them in the ass. For what I pay in healthcare insurance and out of pocket expenses I should be getting
personalized tailored service. What exactly do I mean by that, I’m not asking a lot am I? I expect to be treated professionally,
refer to me by my name or sir. Not hun, honey etc. A private place to change, I’m done with The interrogations, ie what type
of work do you do, what are the names of all your siblings and what are their occupations.

I especially hate the Dumbass nurses who want to recite verbatim my discharge instructions as if they are lecturing me, just
give me the printed discharge instructions, I can read. Now, for those who just want to read this for entertainment you really
should be spending more time on the blogs that describe nursing and physician malpractice or more specifically all the
unfortunate things that can happen to you while hospitalized, it’s not very entertaining.

PT

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 7:41:00 PM, Blogger Biker said...

Just a comment following up on 58flyer's friend having had a chaperone for his exam. If, as everyone who works in healthcare says, there is nothing even remotely sexual about patient exposure, why do they feel the need for chaperones? Why do they need MUTA's & GTA's to train students when they say there's nothing sexual for themselves or the patient? Why only females for mammograms if there is nothing sexual about healthcare procedures?

I'll answer the question. It's because they know it is seen through a sexual lens for the staff and/or the patient but choose to go on making believe it's not.

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 7:59:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I’m devoting this comment to wackos who like reading this blog for fun

You are a wack job if you

1) Have a fetish about intimate procedures being performed on you
2) Like reading this blog for fetish purposes only
3) nurses who wear their scrubs to coffee shops, grocery stores or bars
4)nurses who have bumper stickers describing themselves as nurses
5)people who watch medical tv shows all day long
6) people who watch medical tv shows all evening long
7) nurses who after work watch medical tv shows ( you are a real WACK job)
8)extra wack job credits to female nurses who request female providers
only although you work in urology or an intensive care unit.

PT

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 9:11:00 PM, Blogger Maurice Bernstein, M.D. said...

PT, I didn't intend to get you all "wacked up" about my comment about the spam attempts that I have to delete and not publish. The content of what is written by these spammers is to sell a drug or an overseas doctor or something but not any contribution to the underlying theme of this blog thread or the matters under current discussion. "I love this blog" (with no further explanation for the "love") comes before the advertisement description and has no specificity with regard to the current topic or topics which have been written by others. And there is no evidence in what they are attempting to post is of emotional ventilation that you and the other contributors are posting. Their intent is obviously, to me, $elling, $elling, $elling.

I have repeatedly encouraged overseas visitors (like our F68.10) in my postings to contribute to the discussions here.. and, yes, "sell" us a view or actions in their countries that can contribute to our discussions with the insight from experience of those outside of the USA.

I hope I have clarified what I wrote.

..Maurice.

 
At Saturday, May 18, 2019 10:18:00 PM, Blogger 58flyer said...

Maurice,
Thanks for allowing my plug for the procedure shorts. I have no personal business interests in the company and just answered the question about how to get the shorts. I can say from personal experience that wearing the shorts during a procedure adds greatly to the comfort level. You don't have the feeling of being bottomless. I am thinking that I will wear them for the cysto this week. Anyone reading this blog is now aware of procedure shorts and how much it adds to the comfort level. In my situation, I was able to educate my urologic provider about something they didn't know about. Hopefully they will place an order and use them in future patient encounters. I hope I have made a difference.

Biker,
Yes, I agree that she was most likely an MA. Never would a male MA chaperone a male doctor during an intimate exam of a female patient. In my opinion, MA's have no business having access to patients of the opposite sex. If I were king of the world I would make things different. But I am not. I am thinking about approaching my congressman or senator, or both, to push for changes in the laws regarding just who has intimate access to opposite sex patients and making changes in the area of who and what a chaperone is.

PT,
Funny you mentioned the nurse bumper stickers. In my 41 year Law Enforcement career I have always strived to be the most professional and caring officer as I could possibly be. But I have to admit to being human. In stopping cars with nurse related bumper stickers, while I have never made a false charge, there were the times when I adopted, in the moment, a "zero tolerance" policy. "Sign on this line Ma'am, and be sure to press hard with the pen as there are 5 copies."

58flyer

 
At Sunday, May 19, 2019 6:29:00 AM, Anonymous F68.10 said...

Yes I'll try to keep contributing.

 
At Sunday, May 19, 2019 6:39:00 AM, Anonymous F68.10 said...

"Bc Leslie didn't to leave against medical advice was reason enough to have her committed is unbelievable."

The problem is that we do not know. Wanting to leave against medical advice is the right moment when a doctor should judge whether or not to coerce. So the coercion is not necessarily "because" she wanted to leave against medical advive, but rather occured "at the time" she wanted to leave, which does indeed give the illusion of direct causality.

So nuance would be required.

However, the lack of good quality data is appalling, which means that no one else than those in the know can make a judgement call about whether any or all of this is legit. That's, to me, rather a matter of making a case for the independence of Science and Medicine.

 
At Sunday, May 19, 2019 7:16:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JR said:

PT,

Liked your wacko list. On Friday, I must have seen at least 20 scrub wearing medical people at Walmart. It got me to thinking about the germs those scrubs have on them. For that matter, the medical staff themselves. Many hospitals like the hospital from hell are jumping on limiting visitors bc of the few measles/mumps cases. What if those scrub wearing people have a sick kid w/ a temp.? They go into work w/ those scrubs and maybe a germ jumps onto their skin and maybe that skin is uncovered. Many of the medical workers are germ carriers rather than the patient themselves. What about the medical person who doesn't wash or wash properly their scrubs? Patients are stripped and scrubbed. So why are medical staff stripped and showered? If it is so important why is this not happening? Patients are less likely to get an infection from a hair on their body than if a hair from the medical person falls in them. I noticed my husband's cath heifer-hags had hair hanging all over the outside of their headgear. Of course, the reason they ask all the questions is they need that information because they sell it for money. It falls under the guise of information needed to run the healthcare administration. This is the way they avoid HIPAA constraints and other regulations limiting the use of PHI & PII. The more information they have, they more money they get. They also use the info to in studies they participate in on a voluntary basis. Your name, ssn, address, phone #, info about family, work, etc. go everywhere. You have no right to any type of privacy once you become a patient bc you cease to exist as an individual. You are merely an object for them to manipulate at will. If you happen to find respite from your illness per their treatment, that will look good for them overall but even if you don't they can falsify your med. records so they don't look bad. Falsifying med records is absolutely acceptable per the government.

Those med. assts. think they are as important as med. staff who go through years of education. They may be even worse in their attitudes bc they are trying to assert their control & power to make up for their lack of standing in the hierarchy of the med community. The only ones they can bully are the patients. When my mother has an EKG done, she is told depending on how many leads to "remove" or "change" for EKG access. When my husband has even just a 3 lead EKG, he is told to "strip" from the waist up. It is indeed very different how they even have patients comply w/ the same procedure instructions. The one tech started to unbutton his shirt but he stepped back and told her not to that he could unbutton his own shirt. What would happen if a male tech started to unbutton a female's shirt? There was no offer of a gown and he was expected to do this in front of them. Is this the same for female patients. Are they forced to undress from the waist up in front of a male tech? If no, then why not? That is bc they know there is a sexual component to all of this. Do male techs just stand and stare at the genitals of a female patient like the female techs do when a male patient is exposed? No, generally that does not happen. Although my husband had a male dr. and he had a male PA for his prostate procedure, the rest were females. The OP report lists the dr., the PA, and a scrub nurse as positioning him in an extreme lithotomy position. It lists the Dr. as inserting the foley and rectal caths. However, there were 5 others listed as being present and all of those were females. This was a urology practice that specializes in cancer in a hospital where this dr. had his own OR setup so you would think he would have made his practice more friendly to the male only clients he served? What you don't know when unconscious won't matter it the slogan. Back 13 years, the reports gave much more detail than w/ the electronic pick the phrase type reports of today. JR

 

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