What have you been reading, hearing or TV viewing that has provoked some feelings of comfort or concern about what is happening in the world of medicine, medical care, treatment or science? Ethics is all about doing the right thing. Are you aware of any issues in medicine or biologic science which are being done right, could be improved or in fact represent totally unethical behavior? Write about them here.. and I will too! ..Maurice (DoktorMo@aol.com)
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TO FIND A TOPIC OF INTEREST TO YOU ON THIS BLOG, SIMPLY TYPE IN THE NAME OR WORDS RELATED TO THE TOPIC IN THE FIELD IN THE LEFT HAND SIDE AT TOP OF THE PAGE AND THEN CLICK ON “SEARCH BLOG”. WITH WELL OVER 900 TOPICS, MOST ABOUT GENERAL OR SPECIFIC ETHICAL ISSUES BUT NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO ANY SPECIFIC DATE OR EVENT, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND WHAT YOU WANT. IF YOU DON’T PLEASE WRITE TO ME ON THE FEEDBACK THREAD OR BY E-MAIL DoktorMo@aol.com
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FEEDBACK,FEEDBACK,FEEDBACK! WRITE YOUR FEEDBACK ABOUT THIS BLOG, WHAT IS GOOD, POOR AND CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVEMENT TO THIS FEEDBACK THREAD
Now is the time to move on to this Volume 131. There are still many aspects of this blog topic title which can be "born" or further developed. ..Maurice
posted by Maurice Bernstein, M.D. @ 4:40:00 PM
158 comments
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158 Comments:
Yes, it's time to move on to this new Volume regarding patient dignity and your view of what those words mean. ..Maurice.
I know I have posted this before but can’t remember where? We were having a cookout and a life long friend of my wife was relaying a story that occurred years earlier when she was dropping off some reports at a urologist office. The doctor was not in and as she entered the office all the girls were laughing it up and she asked if they were having a party and what was so funny? They told her their last patient had the biggest D-ck of any patient they had seen in that office and then showed her the chart they were keeping of all the other men’s sizes. This was not for medical reasons it was for their own amusement. My wife saw the look on my face and asked her to say no more because she knew how I felt about things like that. I might add I had been to this urologist as a patient myself. How many of these men knew how badly they were being violated? This is an up close and personal experience that I would have never known about if it hadn’t come up in a conversation about weather this doctor had retired or not. These are the kind of things that go on that even the doctor of that practice had no idea was happening . Because access is given to opposite sex individuals of patients genitals that is otherwise forbidden in society these are the kinds of things that are to be expected. I can’t imagine a group of male nurses having a conversation or chart of all the Various men’s sizes ? More than likely they would be registering various women’s attributes . Bottom line is it’s not all cupcakes and unicorns like they would like you to believe
Jeff
Hi All,
This story is doing the rounds on social media, so you may have already seen it. If not, there is a video showing personnel at a dental practice reading aloud from a cancer patient's journal. They are giggling as the patient describes their thoughts, concerning various treatment options:
Premier Dental Group
Do you see now the behavior of Trump and the goals of the Republican party
under Trump as now presented to the public contrasting with what is expected to be the goals and behavior of the leaders of the Democratic party to all American citizens? Do you think the contrast of the goals and behavior will now to allow medical/surgical decision- making something much easier to make and accept ..or will it all continue to be political in many ways? ..Maurice.
Trump does not support WHO in making medical decisions for Americans. Trump also believes abortion should be left up to the individual states or Congress along with his position of abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances. I do see from the prior vaccine mandates of the Biden/Harris regime they do not believe in patient autonomy. They believe they have the right to force medical "treatments" of their choice on us. Trump believes in individual rights. I also believe there will be an effort to thin out the ranks of social security via Medicare treatments for certain groups if Harris is elected. I also believe Harris will encourage more confused children to sexually mutilate themselves while also believing these same children who she says have the maturity to change their sex do not have the same maturity to have a gun. Such wisdom in the DemocRat Party. JR
Dr. Bernstein, certainly the parties have differing opinions on various aspects of healthcare but neither seem particularly concerned with things like patient privacy or dignity. Nothing seems to change in that regard when one party replaces the other in the White House, nor does it differ in Blue vs Red States.
The two parties differ on things like abortion, how healthcare is funded and for who it is funded, but neither seems to care that men die years sooner than women. There is no talk of a federal Office of Men's Health or prioritizing any funding relative to men's health by either party. The Democrat platform for the current election has numerous women's health priorities but none for men. It seems their priority is healthcare for women by women. The sole full service hospital & Level 1 Trauma Center in my State is concerned that minority patients need to see more physicians that look like them and so they have instituted an equity mentoring program for minority females in grades 7 - 12 in hopes of generating more minority doctors. Minority boys in grades 7 - 12 are not eligible to participate in the program. Apparently only female patients need to see providers that look like them. If that doesn't make it clear what the Democrat priorities are, nothing does. It is as if male patients are an afterthought. This is in an overwhelmingly Democrat & Progressive Party enclave, not that the Republicans care about male patients either.
Biker or at least I believe the post was from you, I agree. Neither party cares about the bodily dignity of men. It absolutely floors that such blatant racism is allowed to happen in our time but I have read so many articles about minority patients wanting to see only minority health care providers. However, I have read some hospital systems have put into place policies punishing White patients who want to see White providers. The justification that may used to allow this blatant example of racism is entirely above my comprehension level. It is a Woke policy. Yes, the Demo platform has women's health initiatives which mainly concern the right to kill babies. However, when it comes down to really protecting the bodily autonomy of women, it fails because it is this same Demo party that has said WHO should have the supreme right during what is called a health emergency. This means that same woman who must be able to murder a baby as the result of her irresponsible behavior does not have the right to refuse a vaccine. So a woman has the right to have something (a baby) from her body but does not have the right to refuse to have something put into her body? This is Demo (Marxist) policies at its best. What I found interesting is at the DNC convention there is a mobile Planned Parenthood RV there that is offering vasectomies but not offering female sterilization as far as I could find. In the political lopsided view of things, it seems it is a man's responsibility to make sure a woman does not get pregnant. To me this reinforces the idea we as women can say we are responsible for our bodily actions but in reality, someone must actually take the responsibility. It is the whole attitude that men are at fault and this lends to the overall attitude that men seeking care are often mistreated by female staff who refuse to recognize their bodily privacy rights. When hate is taught, there are consequences. What is also interesting is it is known there is a nursing shortage and that there aren't as many female MDs as males. Well, they have taken incentives to fix the female MD issue as Biker represented and not very well because they are purposely discriminating against young boys. However, on the issue of nursing where is the push to better open the doors for men to bust into a primarily woman field? This is the politics of the Progressives. Progress is only what they want it to be. The Republicans seem to have the attitude of letting the workplace work out its own issues which it doesn't appear to be doing very well. Rather than the color of someone, I am more interested in getting doctor/nurse/whoever that I can understand meaning no language barrier which IMO thoroughly endangers my safety if they cannot plainly speak to me. No one is addressing this safety issue either. JR
Good Afternoon:
As far as a federal Office of Men's Health goes you can basically forget that avenue.
Representative Donald Payne Jr. A democrat in the House of Representative brought forth a bill H.R.5986 - Men’s Health Awareness and Improvement Act.in the 117th Congress (2021-2022).
It was referred to the Subcommittee on Health where it died.
Representative Payne was going to reintroduce the bill this year even though it had little chance to go anywhere with the current divisions in the House of Representatives.
Problem was, he passed away earlier this year before he had the chance to reintroduce the bill.
His republican counterpart in the House of Representatives is a no show on men's health issues.
As for myself, I've notified my state & federal elected officials not to expect votes from myself or my family as none of them have done anything to advance men's healthcare.
That my friends is all I have for now. Have a great day.
Regards,
NTT
Good afternoon:
Someone commented about a federal Office of Men's Health.
It's not going to happen any time soon as the representative from NJ that put forth the original H.R.5986 - Men’s Health Awareness and Improvement Act to create the Office of Men's Health passed away earlier this year before he could reintroduce the bill.
His republican counterpart in the House has been a no show so far as far as men's health is concerned.
As for myself, I've already notified my state & federal elected officials they can look elsewhere this year for votes as they've done nothing to advance men's healthcare.
That's all I have for now. Have a great day.
Regards,
NTT
NTT, neither party cares is what it comes down to. Boys do not graduate high school at the same rate as girls, yet the only gender-specific programs found in public schools are geared towards the girls encouraging them into STEM fields and such. Boys and men overwhelmingly dominate juvenile homes & prisons, and that is simply accepted as normal rather than focusing efforts on the root causes that lead boys astray. In an age where so many grow up in single parent (mother) households and go to schools w/o any male teachers often until middle or high school, anyone who dares say these troubled boys need a strong male role model in their life does so at their own peril. The women in charge are failing them, but that's OK as they're only boys.
In healthcare, any medical specialty in which men dominate is deemed problematic and efforts are being made to encourage more women to choose those fields. Any specialty that women dominate is deemed OK as is. The whole "patients need to see doctors who look like them" that is used to encourage females in general and female minorities in particular is never extended to to non-physician roles where women overwhelmingly dominate, except to the extent that more female minority nurses or techs are needed. The "Looks like me" problems being focused on never include male patients.
Despite the "equal equal equal" cries anywhere that men have an advantage, 18 year old girls are still not required to register for the draft because that kind of equal isn't what they are looking for.
This being the current state of our society, and men dying years sooner than women on average, there is zero chance Congress is going to do anything that suggests male healthcare needs any attention.
What is missing on this bioethics topic is the input of views of the current social-sexual and medical behaviors as written by teen-aged or middle-school boys and girls. But all we see here is the views of "old" men and women. We need input from those experiencing the very early phases of their life and experience with the medical profession.
Doesn't everyone here see this missing view input of this topic? ..Maurice.
Good thought Dr. Bernstein. Yes, the thoughts of young people would be informative of societal changes from their perspective. Us older guys had mandatory showers after gym in Middle & High School, and some of us experienced mandatory swimming classes in the buff. My understanding is that showers are mostly a thing of the past in schools now. Also I have observed in adult gym locker rooms that the younger guys are much more shy than the older guys. How that all translates into healthcare settings is anyone's guess.
For the most part I don't think boys are subjected to semi-public school & sports physicals anymore, most now getting it done with their own doctors, though I believe in lower income settings that schools may still be providing physicals, but I don't know how they are done.
Most young people haven't experienced much of the healthcare system beyond physicals and very routine matters vs the kinds of more personal care that can come as we age. But I do wonder if boys are acculturated to female dominance in healthcare moreso than us older guys are in that I believe females are now about 75% of pediatricians, plus of course the female PA's and NP's that may be seeing adolescents in pediatric offices are likely greater than 75%. How many boys grow up ever having had any healthcare from male staff?
I also wonder to what extent mothers advocate for boys, especially young teens, that balk at getting physicals from female pediatricians. Are those boys supported or do they get what amounts to a feminist lecture?
I have been AWOL here because I don't care about this stuff anymore.
Truth is that 1990-2001 I found some of the sexual misconduct amusing, but at a certain point when I was getting old & facing chaperones I wanted to end all of it, & ironically that's impossible & that's when it bothered me.
I am not recovering from my meniscus tear surgery & it looks like my knee is destroyed. Technically I'm due for I knee implant, but I know better than to have any open surgery. So I'll die before I live with with this knee pain, & I"ll due before having an implant, so fill in those blanks. My teeth are ruined, & my back is destroyed too, & I won't accept it. It's also a lonely fruitless life trapped in a blue collar Hellhole. My parrot was my only saving grace & I'll never have anything like him again.
I am frantically trying to make my trailer living room a clean, spiffy, organized place where I can finally listen & watch opera DVDs, movies, & just relax until the 12th anniversary of my parrot's death in Winter, when I'll ritualistically deal with thus this untreatable misery on my own terms. No reason to post here anymore.
TC
I think most of us found this blog on our own. Young people probably wouldn't do that. I guess we COULD make some of our younger family members aware of this group. JF
Anyone here consider the value of Equine Assisted Therapy, Equine Facilitated Learning or Therapeutic Riding as approaches to the cognitive physical, emotional and social wellbeing of individuals with special needs? Consider reviewing this specific form of mental and emotional symptoms and the benefit of such therapy. A relative who walks along with the patients on their horses has brought this form of therapy to my attention. ..Maurice.
Of course, animal therapy is exceptionally beneficial for those who have enough compassion to understand the unconditional love and acceptance of animals. Our little toy parti schnauzer is who helped my husband so much after his medical/sexual assaults. He would just sit and hold him. I know older people who have no one but they have animals so they take care of themselves so they can take care of their animals because otherwise they know their animals would be throwaways once taken to a shelter as far too many are murdered at shelters. My friend who now has chosen suicide is only sticking around to make sure she can find permanent care for her therapy horses. Once she has secured their futures, she will go ahead with her suicide as she can no longer physically care for them nor can she any longer ride. Animals can bring comfort whereas humans may fail. JR
Where is everybody? Has this topic of Patient Dignity reached its completion of further value for those who have personal issues pertinent to the various aspects of personal and/or familial life? It certainly is possible that there are no other previous contributors or visitors have nothing to say or suggest on this topic.
But even ventilation can be clinically therapeutic. ..Maurice.
Dr. Bernstein,
I am not sure if people will come back and participate but my involvement usually coincides with the potential for medical modesty violations and how much stress I am under in my daily life. My medical situation is currently quiet as I have no impending medical/surgical situations. However, I can see that changing in the future as more urological procedure are likely in my future. At 68, I am starting to experience BPH symptoms and still have a couple of kidney stones but they are not actively causing me problems. Any medical intervention in either of these areas will bring modesty/dignity issues back into focus for me as most treatments involve very intimate exposure.
Like myself, any previously active posters have aged and perhaps have resigned themselves to the way things are. I am not feeling very optimistic about securing change particularly from a male perspective. While the percentage of male nurses has slowly increased, the increase in women attending medical school has risen sharply. Even finding a male doctor will become more difficult as time goes on as fewer men are attending college in relation to women.
It seems that younger men may also be more comfortable with all-female care. That in combination with younger people being willing to give up personal privacy in exchange for free social media accounts/email. Giving up all bodily autonomy may be an extension of the direction society is moving.
Newer platforms such as Reddit and Quora are attracting participants that might have found their way to this blog. I follow several threads on both these platforms and there are a number of dedicated contributors to those postings as well. I have seen references to your blog but the preference seems to be with the newer platforms.
I have been meaning to present a theory to the blog about why I think male-focused treatment options have not gained much traction and probably never will. I have resigned myself to fact that I will have to accept intimate treatment from female personnel but will still try to pick some specific battles for the sake of principle. An example of this would be the removal of a urinary catheter. There really is no reason to expose a patient except that it is convenient for the health care worker. I will insist on covering my genitals or will remove the catheter myself by cutting the balloon-port line. Another example will be to refuse intimate exposure during skin assessments and indicate that I can check that area and will inform the health care professional if there is a problem. I have also thought of offering to pay a bonus to male staff who volunteer for my case. I don’t know if that will fly with a surgical center/hospital, but I plan to try it should I need an intimate procedure in the future.
I would like to thank you again for all the tireless work you have done over the last 15+ years in moderating this blog. Having the insight of a medical professional has provided a tremendous value that is not always available on other platforms. Even though it took me 10 years to have the courage to contribute, your comments/direction and the input from the many contributors helped me through a very difficult time and allowed me to see that I was not alone in the way I felt.
I mentioned this before, but I totally understand if you are ready to relinquish the responsibility to maintain the blog to concentrate on your other interests. Of course, I don’t think this blog was a complete burden as I think you probably enjoyed the discourse and back and forth exchange of ideas in relation to your choice of profession. You should be very proud of the contributions that you have made to this discussion.
EM
Our niece is a true believer in the medical community propaganda.
In early June 2024, she had a procedure that required her to return later in June. When she went to the checkout desk the receptionist gave her a date and time to return. When the niece asked if she could she get a different date because of a conflict, the receptionist said that the next availability was in December [six months later]. Ever our niece realized that the receptionist was lying. I told our niece that the receptionist was proving to herself that the delivery of medicine is about those providing the service at the expense, both figuratively and literally, of those receiving the service.
The six months later appointment would be in January, seven months later. In other words, just do what I [receptionist] tell you even if the MD said six months.
Name another occupation where unskilled control freaks can prove to themselves that they have the power to control others with impunity?
Our niece still believes in medical propaganda even with my providing contrary experiences from this blog thread.
I dream of the day when the investors behind the titular owners of medical institutions decide to change the business model from a bureaucracy with profit to business and tell the mangers to consider that there is competition. Accordingly, maybe more men would see the doctor if they were treated with respect.
BJTNT
The healthcare system does not have any incentive to change the manner in which patients are treated. Demand is far greater than supply. In a couple weeks I will have an ultrasound of my foot two months after my primary care provider referred me for an appt. In January I will see a podiatrist five months after I was referred for an appt. Granted, neither are emergency scenarios but it does speak to the supply and demand side of things.
Baby Boomers are likely the majority of today's urology patients, most of which grew up in an age where we were socialized not to expect intimate privacy in healthcare settings (or elsewhere) and to suffer any embarrassment in silence. Few in this group are going to do much in the way of push back at this late stage.
With women having taken over the pediatrics specialty, younger generations of boys have and are growing up only seeing female doctors with 100% female staffing. They are being socialized to see healthcare as primarily coming from female providers, with an inexplicably alternate universe occurring at the same time where boys no longer are subject to group showers in schools and then carrying that over to shower avoidance in adult locker rooms. Be shy around other guys but accept intimate healthcare from women? Regardless, healthcare is racing towards female dominance amongst MD ranks as well as a continuance of female dominance below the MD level. As older male MD's retire, young female MD's are taking their place.
In the old days, male privacy only came if it offended females. In the current and likely future world, male privacy is only coming if females choose to allow them privacy. Using a non-health example to show how it has permeated society, what began with female reporters in professional athlete locker rooms extended to college athlete locker rooms, male prisons, juvenile detention centers, and from reports I have read, now into adult fitness center locker rooms where male cleaning staff are not allowed in female locker rooms but female cleaning staff are allowed into occupied male locker rooms.
TC here,
First off, about AI: after my telenol overdose my PCP ordered a complete blood panel through a najer medical lab monopoly. I went to it, & the blood analysis was something completely different.
No human interactivity, they objectify is, take out insurance money & from nr care if they even analyze the right stuff that's asked for. I saw her today & got a written hand sample request to give in person. . It's AI that sends is around I circles on the phone, & so ne companies have nobidyanswering the phone , ever!
She also olanakyzed my recent knee MRI & observed everything's sound, & should be ok after the hyaluronic acid is absorbed & all the knee water is aspirated +in Time) no implant should get immanent.
The medial branch blocks are working on my back, so I guess I might have a stay of execution.
Tac
TC here
Biker
I've shared this before here, but I want to remind you all that 1920-1980 all American schools that had swimming pools inflicted mandatory nude, public swimming for all the makes in junior high through high school. They had no choice! They adopted antiquated YMCA rules that prohibited wool bathing suits that clogged the filters, & water PH level issues. By then PH levels were tackled, & bathing suits were no longer wool, & the girls were allowed to wear them, but boys weren't. I've read accounts of young female swimming assistants attending to the boys, making sure they showered first, & hands on exams of genitals & feet for diseases. Modest boys were forced to expose themselves, & in the courts the only argument in favor of forcing nudity was "tradition*, & that held up.
Outside if courts there was an implicit "reason", or rationalization: that girls will have husbands & boys, & need to learn about them.
Believe it or not, this argument was openly espoused, will twin advice communists Anne Landers & Abigail Van Buren (Dear Abbey) leasing the charge. They wrote that at pools & bathing holes, it was poor etiquette for boys & young men to wear bathing suits, & and deprive girls & women of the opportunity to check them out. Boys that were modest needed to "get over it" & man up.
I'm one column, a women with a small boy wrote that a neighbor with 3 girls (no brothers) asked to borrow the boy so they could bath him & check out his privates, & asked should she just hand him over? Landers said, "no, invite the mother & the girls to bath him & check him out at her place!
I can't reconcile this because I was brought up by a misandrist mother who was raped by her grandfather, & she hated the male anatomy. I was brought up to believe that exposing myself to any woman would leave her feeling mortified. My first experiences with nurses at 32 shocked me. Their hands on aggressiveness & voyeurism contraducted my belief system, & what I read about in the context of things like nude swimming, female reporters in kicker rooms, & hospital medical care leave my head reeling.
If zi were a sports reporter & was offer a guaranteed contract of millions per year to intrude, barge into a locker room of naked female athletes, I would refuse! I have a moral compass.
TC
TC here
Dr B. Why did you post this link to those Dear Abbey & Anne Landers article. It proves I wasn't making it up. It bolsters the societal view espoused here in patient modesty here that makes can't have modesty unless women are genuinely bothered by naked men, but what men think dint matter.
I think members hear should see this to believe it!
https://sites.google.com/site/historicarchives4maleswimming/home/ii-archives-early-20th-century-after/b-syndicated-columnists
TC, my freshman year of college (1971), during orientation week boys were required to take a fitness test which consisted of running a mile within X number of minutes and a swimming test. The swimming test was in the nude, males-only being present. We had to wait in a very long line (nude) for our time to get in the pool one at a time to take the test. Freshman girls were not required to take a fitness or swimming test. Boys were required to take a year of gym classes, but could choose what courses they took, unless you failed the fitness or swimming test. In either case you would have to take a remedial fitness and/or swimming test as your 1st gym electives. I easily passed the fitness test but I was a poor swimmer and failed that test. The remedial swimming test was conducted in the nude, males only being present. The swimming coaches were fully dressed. Girls did not have a gym requirement.
News flash from TC! My PCP was lblowing smoke out of my ass by saying the knee MRI indicates that the pain, swelling, foot neuropathy pain shouldn't exist.
Well it does exist, & has fur 16 months so she's full of false optimism. My orthopedist has told me that the extra meniscus wear from his scope means severe arthritis fur the rest of not life. He asks me every time, are you ready to accept it.
Actually I won't accept it . I plan a secret, permanent home remedy that will go x everything on the 12th anniversary of my parrot's death, & it will be carried out quite ritualistically.
The only intervention for the knee is aspiration, & two steroid injections in October & January, but no hope. The knee pain & intolerable & goes up to my hip & keeps me up at night. The foot neuropathy pain is relentless. I step in a grain of sand on the floor, & it feels like a nail. It is a death sentence. I will not cut the knee up joint implant & live with a mass of scar tissue. If orthopedists were honest about the tissue damage damage from their surgery, they'd go vour if business. I've had two "open" surgeries, & regret the damage & scar tissue. You've all heard about my inguinal pain from that vericoselectomy. That's what I mean. I'll die before have open surgery again, & I won't live with this pain.
I just blasted ny doctir fur her intellectual dishonesty. That stupid, flakey bitch goes, the MRI shows everything is fine! Jesus did I give her Hell over the phone & about two dozen angry messages on fer portal.
BtW, you all should read that Dear Abbey & Anne Landers stuff about how much thuse ditty old bitches live naked boys. Unfortunately, Doctor B Censored it & didn't post it.
TC
TC to Biker,
Your school board of supervisors were perverted. I think anyone that interested in forcing another human being tio expose his privates has committed a crime against society , & should be immolated qqas a punishment. No hyperbole from me, I mean that.
I can't understand the driving force beji d authority figures that mandate genital exposure. A man's penis is due urinating (not a spectator sport) & for sex alone 11with a significant other -- unless he needs medical help & again, it should be dignified & nut a spectator spurt.
Who in the Hell are people to impose gratuitous nudity in others . I could & would NEVER do that. Truth is that there are guilty people with brains hardwired to control other the innocent, & they go into the military, law enforcement, become correctional officers , go into MEDICINE (!) & public school teaching & administration. I assert these people are inherently evil.
There even was a phenomenon of mandatory nude "posture photos* in Ivy League campuses & elsewhere. This persisted for about 100 years. There are nude photos of Dtane a Sawyer , Bush senior & Jr, Meryl Streep, & many others. I've seen the posture photo of James Franciscus & he wasn't nude. He was wearing sneakers.
Back in the nude swimming days varsity swimmers swam openly in public & had their nude photos in the year books. But every bit had to swun nude, & the girls were allowed wed by their gymnastics teachers to gawk at then through the cracks stroke call.
The boys were exposed on mandatory parents nights. The girls reported that it was no big deal, but it was a big deal as they later talked about the well endowed boys. No doubt about the truth of forced, public, boys inky, nude swimming, there are many pictures
The prevailing rationale behind this was tradition, & girls sex education. Dear Abbey & Anne Landers documented the need for girls to learn about bits at swimming pool.. There are some rare but credible accounts of bots being forced to bare it all & masturbate & ejaculation at girls sex education .
But Biker, think of being an unpopular nerdy guy, forced to bare it all in front of pretty, popular girls they had no chance of dating -- those girls dating hunks only . That is a totally severe, torture inflicted on the nerds, unnecessarily by arrogant, crazy school administrators. Who in the Hell are they.
I've said it & I'll say it again. People are inherently evil, & I'll be glad to extricate myself from all of you soon.
(Glad it didn't happen to me, & I was shocked to read it!!)
TC
Just saw that last post about college orientation in 1971. Not sure why it went through as anonymous. That was me. Biker
TC, I was startled when I arrived at the pool locker room with my bathing suit to change into, only to find out there would not be any suits. For me the uncomfortable part was just standing there seemingly forever in a long line of naked guys, not so much out of modesty but more due to the seeming lack of inherent dignity as it didn't seem necessary to be nude for so long while we waited our turns. Finally getting into the pool was a relief. Note that I was used to mandatory gang showers from 6th through 12th grade so the issue wasn't being nude with other guys but rather how it was all handled, and I think in part because the coaches & staff watching the tests were fully clothed.
The subsequent swimming classes were OK as we undressed, showered, got in the pool, and them reversed the process when we were done. It didn't feel like we were needlessly hanging out nude like it did while waiting in line for the initial test.
TC again. Well I'm going to openly confess that during dating dry spells when pretty girls weren't available (most of my adult life) I did indulge in CFNM (in Clothed Women Nude Man) humiliation fantasies, and geeky elderly & middle aged women were not excluded. (As long as I didn't have to see them baked(.
I write this now, because it's so amusing, & titillating to read how adamant Anne Landers & Abigail Van Buren were about forcing nudity on guys whether they wanted it or not!
.However, NOT IN MALE GROUPS OR GANGS! Nudity around other guys is an unacceptable turnoff.
I also must confess that when I went to those rare medical visits where genital exposure might take place (extremely rare, like 12-13 visits (w/9 improprieties by nurses!! in over 30 years() I was very business-like, has a very focused medical agenda, but as a defense mechanism, I had a medical fetish script going in the back of my mind. It seemed the nurses at those visits were acting out their roles to a T. Of course, in most cases I resisted them, & somehow felt victimized after the fact. But they all were kind of nice & affectionate, except in one case.
This doesn't include all the times nurses & MAs were playful with me, teasing, touching, even one harmed hugs one harmlessly making sexual double entadres. But some of the teasing seemed overtly sexual
I might've already said this, but at a continuing care facility, where I was transferred to facilitate a "safe release" from a 5150 last year (I was 66) the head nurse invariably stepped too close to me, reached out, draped one arm over my shoulder & caressed one or the other arm as she glared at mevclosely with a fixed affectionate smile. That was weird, & I wanted to observe her interacting with other patients or staff. I never go to see her, her door was closed. She was still attractive for mid thirties & I was the only coherent patient there for a couple days.
TC again. While I'm flurrying here I want to point out that I've known I had osteoarthritis of the knees fur some time, but all joints should've been checked out, including the back -- which felt good even though I was showing signs of peripheral neuropathy, knee buckling, hand patsthesia & ulner neuropathy . A physician should have requested an MRI, but they were all apathetic about my chronic fatigue. (A pain doctor who successfully treated my inguinal neuralgia with all block, did tell me she saw a pattern with all chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia cases: degenerative spinal disease. I didn't believe her, but this was 1999 & I had been suffering since 1992.
Why is it that people aren't educated about osteoarthritis, & told once the x-rays show arthritis & meniscus wear, that the cartilage is so brittle that running across the street can tear the meniscus, & ultimately lead to joint replacement?
Ditto for the discs. Once osteoarthritis sets in, explosive arm activities such as pounding in a heavy bag, or violently swinging a mattock to break up the hard ground for a utility trench, can get iate the discs that otherwise might have held up through the years. It's too late
I still haven't had my blood panel to test for the Tylenol overdose, liver damage (LabCorp screwed up & did something completely different, as my PCP showed me the original requisition that was a blood panel) ) & I recently had been in a powerful fungal med (itraconazole) that can cause liver damage, & I had to discontinue the itraconazole because of extremity neuropathy & congestive heart failure side effects.
I've decided not to bother with her detailed & extended blood work because the one damage is permanent, it trumps all my medical problems, & will be a death sentence ultimately..
Again, I told this to her, & told her that she was careless & thoughtless with her words in saying the MRI I educates I shouldn't be having suchvextreme symptoms.
The orthopedists warned me of immanent meniscus wear that might lead to substantial arthritic . That's playing out, & I blasted her fur being so trivial & unprofessional & irresponsibke with her words. Obviously there IS a reason fur the extreme knee symptoms.
One last comment on the swimming & locker room stuff. In 6th grade the group showers was initially disconcerting but we all quickly got used to it as it was just us boys that were all the same age. Very early on the gym teacher came into the locker room to make sure everyone showered, but once we were all in the swing of things, we had our privacy which continued right through 12th grade. We weren't on display for the adults/authority figures.
The college orientation swim test was different given the long line we had to wait in which didn't seem appropriate and the fact that as we each came up to the edge of the pool one at a time for our test, there were all of the gym teachers/staff (I forget how many were there) fully clothed watching us, and then again as we each got out of the pool after our test and had to walk back to the locker room by ourselves. There is a creepiness factor being in a mixed setting, us freshmen boys all naked and the adults all clothed, even if they were all males. Very different than the public school gang showers 6th through 12th. The subsequent swim classes were better in that we didn't hang around outside the pool and it was only two instructors, though they were fully clothed, and when done we went back to the locker room as a group rather than singly which feels different. It didn't feel like being in display.
In healthcare settings, beyond the extent of needless exposure and the fact that the staff is almost always female, a piece of the issue is again the imbalance of being exposed to people who are fully clothed staff. I realize that can't be helped but what they can help with is minimizing the needless exposure and addressing the gender issue when that is an option.
Oops, that last post was me again. Biker
Biker it's an interesting scenario to imagine what would happen if you, or any of your peers refused to swim naked for the orientation. Telling your teachers NO TEASON not to wear your swim trunks.
Similarly, what might e happened if a Tale or Harvard student said NO to a posture photo!
Push back, even if it escalates to violence is sometimes the only way to effect change. I strongly advicate it
TC
Dr B,
I have found that the ultimate problem with talk forums is that the moderators control the discussions by omitting anything they disagree with or find in bad taste.
I went on a rant about sanctioned, compliance coverups ups & acceptance of institutionalized sexual assaults in teaching hospitals, juvenile detention facilities, human sex trafficing, & ccimomuance of child rape in catholucusm, & rape as weapons of war.
You failed to publish ur. Why?
Participation is diminishing & I will extricate myself if censored. Explain it!
tC
At the border, there have been documented cases of border patrol, random my son making out innocent people not smuggling drugs, taking them to the hospital for full cavity peibes (vaginal & anal) enemas, & forced to urinate & defecate in full view of police, border patrol, hisputal staff, & even other patients with open doors.
This proves to be beyond a reasonable doubt what medical people are really made of. Their true coliors
TC posted that last one about boefter patrol & per eryed hosputals
In response to TC's comment about refusing to do the swim test in the nude, back then we were raised to do as we were told by authority figures....teachers, police, priests/nuns, doctors/nurses, and as kids, adults in general. Refusal to do the swim test as instructed was simple not an option. College administrations would not have tolerated it.
TC to Biker
I wasn't talking about refusing the swim test, but doing the test with a bathing suit, but I get your point.
I've read articles about the posture photos, in which readers mused that refusal to "play the game" could limit careers. That said, of a young Yale lawyer applied to a law firm, would the firm know they refused the pisyire photo?
Also, please don't consider this "contentious". But frankly I can't personally understand people being cool with same gender gang showers. I went along with it, played football where it was par for the course, but was never cool with it, & later repudiated it 100%>
I don't fully understand the prevailing logic among males in this group to strive for same gender surgical teams. From my perspective, I would want minimal, but competent team members.
By minimal, I mean there are too many present. Ant passive member just spectating should not be allowed
At my knee scope 003/24 there were too many people present, including two nurses just watching. Good think I was clothed throughout it.
For surgeries, I also strongly urge that every step should be taken to avoid unecessary underwear removal, & avoid arbitrary catheterization. Once those matters are onserved, who cares about gender.?
I also don't understand things such as societies norms regarding male urinals. Turning a very singular activity that required nobody else's involvement, into a communal activity. Unacceptable.
I do understand Misty Robert's assertion that male endocrinologists & gynecologists getting aroused, & lying about it after the fact. So if I were a female id gravitate towards other females.
Same gender providers still bring out the homophobe in me.
Ironically, I am happily married bing in an estate where my nearest neighbors are about a quarter of a mine away. I've been naked all summer even when stepping outside. Im sure at a distance I can be seen by those like oking hard. But in this context I don't care. It brings out the rascal in ne.
TC
TC Spell checker morphed my words from happily being here, Not Married
TC here. I am having the worst bout of thoracic pressure & radacular rib & abdominal pain ever, so please forgive me for possibly being redundant, but this might be worth repeating. On 07/18/24 I had a Medial branch block done at a Palm Springs surgery center, & that observed utmost respect for patient dignity. I was fully clothed, head to toe, & the put a gown OVER my clothes, & a hair net & rubber boots on me.
The injection was done with everything rolled up, & little pulled down out of the way, AS IT SHOULD BE DONE, though there were a lot of people present who wanted to force a little IV sedation versed on me (not needed next time.)
Now, contrast this protocol to that of the student health sex abuse teaching institutions, UCLA & USC, where they live by the motto, "the only good patient is a naked patient". At both institutions, I made arrangements to protect myself by using " Patient Experience" as a liaison, where I would've had to take EVERY stitch of clothing off, put on a gown to cover my front, with my backside exposed to as many assistants & students as they wish. (Yeah, they would've draped a blanket over my butt, but only after first getting a good look at it, & then exposing "half crack" or even way more than what's necessary..)
I still can't believe that after all the compliance & cover-ups, particularly through UCLA's medical, teaching administrative staff & UC Regents, that these places can be so boldly dictatorial, self-serving, & be taken seriously by medical consumers. They should be in prison showers getting their own medicine.
(Up until 2023, USC had a written "opt out" for those refusing students, but this year did away with it, & Keck's Patient Experience was all the more aggressive in asserting their "right" as a teaching institutions to take complete control of me.
Ultimately, USC campus police called me after I blasted them.
I must hand it to myself that I was 100% right in holding out & being so proactive.
My huge costly mistake? I wish I reconsidered meniscus surgery before losing too much of it.
Tomorrow I am traveling a long distance to see a back specialist, it seems serendipity that my back is acting up on this day.
TC
Where is everybody? Reading and writing to this patient dignity topic. Has everything that was to be said was already said and no further reading or contributions to this topic is further necessary. ..Maurice.
I'm usually here Dr B. I don't usually chime in anymore because I don't have a lot to say that I haven't said before
( multiple times ) But I don't think anything is resolved. The medical world is as corrupt just like our judicial system is and our heinous Children Services is. What do I think you right things? Probably nothing except a bloodly battle
Sorry Dr B. It's me. JF
Dr. Bernstein,
I am still here. Composing some thoughts on why things will not change in regards to men's quest for same-sex care.
EM
i can hardly wait until Friday when I have an Urology appointment with a female nurse to discuss kidney stones, HRT, and BPH. I do not anticipate any exams but have been running scenarios in my mind just in case. The practice split offices and my doctor did not bring any male personnel with him except for a single man in the front office.
EM
My PCP recommended that I have an upper endoscopy because of my acid reflux and I agreed to do so (fortunately the test results were negative). When I checked in on the morning of the test the receptionist asked me to provide a digital signature granting permission for the test to be performed. I politely told her that I would not sign a signature pad until I saw in writing exactly what I was consenting to. To her credit, she immediately printed out the three-page consent form. Of course, there was a paragraph stating that students and anyone else they chose would be allowed to observe my exam. Since the procedure involved no intimate exposure, I would have allowed observers but this blatant attempt to keep me ignorant of what I was agreeing to really pissed me off. So, I crossed out that paragraph and wrote beneath it, “Essential personnel only” and then initialed it. The receptionist said there were no students there that day in any case; but even if that were true, I wanted to make my point in writing.
I found the whole process to be very discouraging. They have gone from shoving consent forms in a patient’s face just before a procedure to not showing them the forms at all. And as we know, most patients have no idea that what they are agreeing to is much more than a simple consent to perform a procedure.
MG
I got a pleasant surprise at my Urology appointment. I ended up meeting with the Urologist instead of his female nurse. He want me to do a bladder function test called UroCuff. This system, which is designed for use by men, is much less invasive than standard Urodynamics and doesn't require catheters or rectal probes but does have intimate exposure. I must have had a pitiful expression on my face as I was thinking about doing the test with female personnel because he immediately said "Don't worry, we have a male nurse for the test". I would like to think that I had some small part in the decision to hire a male nurse based on my discussions with him. I will take these small wins as often as I can get them.
I haven't finished my thoughts together about why I don't think there will be any real changes to the medical profession when it comes to male modesty/dignity and choice of providers. We here in Florida have been distracted by this double hurricane occurrence.
EM
TC here
On a positive note, I had a great phone visit with my PCP. She's in a class by herself & she makes me feel warm & fuzzy.
Reading about all these urological issues I should feel my my that I don't have those, & that my knee & back issues shouldn't be life or death. (almost under control, the pain, icing, stretching ,dues make me feel like a football player, or something.
JF was right about the corruption of our whole healthcare & judicial system. At the root of it us corporate personhood. It's only going to get worse.
In Eureka, CA., A woman was hemorrhaging, miscarrying with 15 week old twins. Providence, a Catholic hospital, denied her a life saving abortion, or any treatment other than offering a bucket & towels, & redirected her to a hospital 5 hours away, in which interval she would've bleed to death.
She was airlifted to a facility that saved her life via an abortion. The state attorney is suing the hospital, they should bring criminal charges.
We are living a conservative 1984 style dystopia . In freshman English, we were brainwashed into believing Orwell's antagonist were Communists. In fact, Orwell was a Socialist Democrat warning us against Fascism (corporatism, Mussolini's definition) taking the guise of elected officials running under a 2 party system in which both parties are bribed, OR via a dictatorial coup
TC
That great news MG & EM. If more patients speak up, especially men, small victories can be had. Perhaps more importantly, it may help normalize these small victories which will help guys that might be either too shy to speak up, or that simply don't know that they can.
Does the weather or should the weather affect each patient's dignity?
Those living now in Florida, should their dignity requirements be expected to be at least temporarily ignored for survival? ..Maurice.
Dr. B,
Most contributors to this blog have indicated that in the event of an emergency they would give up some of their requirements in order to save their life. I would not be happy if I was conscious and thought my dignity was being violated but would strive to accept it.
One of the biggest complaints is that during non-emergencies where medical personnel could just as easily honor modesty/dignity requirements but don't because it is expedient not to or they are simply not thinking.
EM
I feel like more medical crisis is CREATED by the dignity violations than the other that you mention. Patients AVOIDING care because of fear of humiliation. Not just male patients either. JF
TC
Much has been said here about same gender medical staff, & certainly Misty Roberts makes a strong case that male endocrinologists & gynecologists lie when they say that they're not aroused.
I'm so interested to see where people in this group might draw the line:
1) PREEMPLOYMENT PHYSICALS. One of my big peaves, employers paying doctors to commit blatant conflict of interests/ethics to get inside the pants of their new hirees -- demonstrating who's holding the cards the way the military does young recruits.
.
The American with Disabilities Act stipulates that employees only have to demonstrate that they can do the primary functions of the job , AND INGUINAL & SCROTAL HERNIAS --EVEN WITH HEAVY LIFTING IS TERTIARY FUNCTION! (Military physicals are intentionally humiliating in their
So if we're not sex workers we have moral & legal privacy rights & do not have to "bend over" figuratively or literally. We don't even have to turn our heads & cough (something we should only check ourselves, then see a urologist if we find something .
So in this group (particularly males can't instantly advocating same gender MAs, nurses & docs) are you cool with a physician examine our privates for a preemployment physical, if it's same gender?
OBSERVED, SUPERVISED DRUG TESTING: Similarly, how do you feel about this? OK for you if it's a guy watching you. (Not me! NEVER, under any circumstance!)
STRIP SEARCHES: If you're picked for a minor violation, or case of mistaken identity & jailed overnight, is it not too much a violation if a male sheriff deputy does it. (In California, female sheriff deputies do strip male detainees.)
TC
I agree
TC
TC, resubmitting my post fir publication
Much has been said here about same gender medical staff, & certainly Misty Roberts makes a strong case that male endocrinologists & gynecologists lie when they say that they're not aroused.
I'm so interested to see where people in this group might draw the line:
1) PREEMPLOYMENT PHYSICALS. One of my big peaves, employers paying doctors to commit blatant conflict of interests/ethics to get inside the pants of their new hirees -- demonstrating who's holding the cards the way the military does young recruits.
.
The American with Disabilities Act stipulates that employees only have to demonstrate that they can do the primary functions of the job , AND INGUINAL & SCROTAL HERNIAS --EVEN WITH HEAVY LIFTING IS TERTIARY FUNCTION! (Military physicals are intentionally humiliating in their
So if we're not sex workers we have moral & legal privacy rights & do not have to "bend over" figuratively or literally. We don't even have to turn our heads & cough (something we should only check ourselves, then see a urologist if we find something .
So in this group (particularly males can't instantly advocating same gender MAs, nurses & docs) are you cool with a physician examine our privates for a preemployment physical, if it's same gender?
OBSERVED, SUPERVISED DRUG TESTING: Similarly, how do you feel about this? OK for you if it's a guy watching you. (Not me! NEVER, under any circumstance!)
STRIP SEARCHES: If you're picked for a minor violation, or case of mistaken identity & jailed overnight, is it not too much a violation if a male sheriff deputy does it. (In California, female sheriff deputies do strip male detainees.)
TC
TC replying to, & augmenting his own post about perverted preemployment physicals. (Just think about a late 50s steno pool, & their boss sends g each out for physicals w/gyno exams!)
In the late 80s at UC Santa Barbara, my two best friends were hired for low end jobs, both of whom had preemployment physicals that included prostate exams. One was 23 & was hired as a security guard, only to watch monitors, nothing more! When I told him that the ADA protected him from those kind be if exams & he could've declined it, he replied, "I wish you didn't tell her that". Of course, in the real world, enforcing ADA rules iis another thing.
The other friend couldn't afford to continue his graduate math studies, & was hired to teach math at a Catholic high school that only paid 12k (not nearly enough in Santa Barbara). He went to the UCSB Student Healrh Clinic, & orders were fior a *complete* physical, but that said, I don't know if the DRE was in a specific list, or if the doctor was simply improvising.
But this raises the question: Traditionally prostate concerns started at age 40, & now it's 50. SO, WHY ARE DOCTORS DOING PROSTATE EXAMS ON YOUNG STUDENT MEN IN THEIR PRIME? This is predatory, & those doctors were male.
As all you know, I wasn't sure GGGG gtg though vgtricked into an prostate exam at BU medical school at age 19, & it WAS NOT INDiCATED for what I went for in 1976!
So imagine my 1999 reaction to the breaking, 11 o'clock news in which a BUMC doctor & professor, Marcos Ramos, was arrested for rape & sexual assaujt (he's in prison now fot life.) Ranis liked to do workman's compensation, because he had his victims by the throat. Each and every patient, male or female, office workers, firemen & police got a DRE! If they refused, he told insurance company they were faking their injuries, that included broken fingers & carpal tunnel syndrome. The channel 4 anchorman reported how It escalated, _ Ramos once I sisted on doing a DRE on a reluctant woman at the thread of not getting help. After submitting, he massaged her buttocks calling her a fat, filthy little girl.
All the hundreds of complaints were dismissed by BU administrators & the Massachusetts Licencing Board. It wasn't until he penetrated a woman with gys penis that these cases were retroactively reviewed & looked at as sexual assault -- not by the board or his peers (who obviously harbored Ramus) but by the police.
It hit me hard then that if there are people who like sticking their fingers in people's butts so much ch they run so their career & freedom by using coercion, then there are more subtle predators who will resort to subterfuge, line the BU urologist who violated me.
Safe Haven in same gender medical care?
TC
* sorry that spell checker morphs my words. Put more articulately: : if there are doctors who love sticking their fingers up butts so much by means of coercion , that they will risk their careers & freedom for that sexual gratification, , then it was less far fetched that the BUMC urologisdeeived sexual gratification via subterfuge in my exam to get inside my rectum. It relieved all doubt.
TC
A pre-employment physical only happened to me once in early 1980's. Had an extensive physical for an office job that included a hernia check. A female nurse conducted the exam and my face must have shown what I was feeling because she apologized and asked if I wanted a male for the hernia check. I was very embarrassed but I let her perform the exam.
EM
Gee whiz, office work is so strenuous, they did it fur your "protection" (sarcasm!
That nurse was a fucking pervert & so were your emiyers. They need to burn in Hell. I am getting angrier & angrier by the second about this shit.
It all starts in med school UUEs & the attitude of "entitlement" to access other peoples privates trickles down administrationally
RC
I would venture to guess that today's pre-employment physicals are more limited in scope than they were decades ago. This is because of liability concerns should they reject a new hire based on such a physical. They need to be prepared to defend that the item in question is directly linked to successful performance on the job, and even then that the shortfall is not something that can be reasonably accommodated. The Americans with Disabilities Act changed a lot of corporate practices.
I doubt any employment physicals today include prostate exams, nor for office workers would there be a hernia check.
I had a bit of a setback with my scheduled Urocuff exam. I was ready to go back and the male nurse came out and said. "We are ready for you". I asked who is the "We". He said, the equipment rep is here to train us and so I guess I was to be the first teaching subject. Why would a company have a female rep for a piece of equipment that is only used on men and is very intimate in its application. I feel the same way RC, it is so irritating to constantly have to be on guard for this crap.
Prior to finding this blog, I probably would have meekly agreed but instead I told them I was not comfortable with the female equipment rep participating in my intimate testing and rescheduled for a later date after the nurse was trained. I guess they will find men who either don't care about the exposure or who will suffer in silence. I am mildly concerned with the attitude of the nurse and hope I am reading him wrong because he seemed somewhat irritated that I messed up his training. Does this mean that he does not feel that men deserve their dignity/modesty. I will find out next week when I go back for my exam and "probe" his attitude. I should have said, Why dont you be the test subject and one of the female nurses can be trained.
EM
TC here:
You said it, that preemployment exams still usually include hernia checks, & those already do go beyond the "scope" of primary job functions, as defined by the ADA. It's not even secondary, it's tertiary function, which means if you're not hired because you have a hernia, that IS illegal under the ADA! However, employers wont admit it to it, nor will any lawyer, or the ADA, zealously pursue it. So if doctors already step over the line for hernia exams, what's keeping their fingers out of your ass?
Since Bush Jr, labor relations have been totally sabotaged by the Right, as they scapegoats ADA type programs as "job killers", (they're not!)
We all want decency, privacy rights & freedom from being humiliated in medical settings, & things such as observed supervised urine tests. A conservative Supreme Court ruled against that 4th amendment right in 1995, while a liberal ACLU fought for. (The gist of that dispute was that a HS athlete objected to teachers seeing his penis, & the SC didn't care !)
Medical facilities have this stranglehold over us,, because they're are incorporated (profit or not) & through a series of corrupt Supreme Court decisions, the political Right has divested "corporate person-hood" with powers that trump everything.
With this election coming up, in which Fascism will be a "fait accompli" with all of the advances of the 20th century rolled back I can't be silent. I don't understand conservative members here who are distraught over the corporate hijacking of their medical self-autonomy, butvthen flippantly disregarding self-autonomy rights of others in pointing out, "there's no constitutional amendment provision for abortions"! How many more Amber Nicolle Thurman's are going to be denied life saving abortions before all you see the true colors of the Right?
With the House extending its war on women by passiing a bill that will intentionally disenfranchise married women from voting because their married names & birth certificates don't match, what does that tell you? They hate democracy, they want tatal Fascism & will soon get it.
For those thinking this political rant has no relerence here, just wait until your Medicare defaults to privatized a Medicare Advantage pkan that makes it's profits denying your healthcare.
TC
To be honest with you EM, that "male nurse" is as much a little bitch fur "getting irritated" as the female rep is for not earning her living honestly & decently. (Women who do that kind of lascivious work around around & ON men are dirty, just like female reporters in NFL lucker rooms. He needs to be called out, told to l"ose the attitude BITCH" . I'd make a scene so bad that patients in the waiting room would know about it.
TC here & I made that last comment about the filthy bitch equipment rep.
Seriously, EM, I vioysly your make nurse, your dic & the rest of the staff know your preference fur all make staff, so why were you confronted with that unsavory situations? In the first place, let alone ne the nurse getting "irritated"?
This right off the bar is a power geab in their part. You've made headway, but they want it all back.
Intimidate RGE HELL out if them!
RC
First, I was the one that posted on the 17th about current employment exams vs those of decades ago. Not sure the system is making me identify myself again vs it being automatic.
That said, I have to comment on EM's post about the urocuff. I question the propriety of the urocuff company sending females to train nurses on the use of the urocuff. Yes they know that urodynamic departments are almost exclusively staffed by females, and perhaps they assume it simply doesn't matter if they add a non-medically licensed female to the mix in a very hands on manner, pun intended, but that doesn't make it right. Beyond that, why are women applying for such jobs? There is no end to sales rep opportunities out there, but this woman decides she wants one where she'll be physically handling penises? Are the HR and Sales depts at the urocuff company women that purposely seek female reps for these jobs?
That 1995 drug testing case TC mentioned was Vernonia School District vs Acton. He was in 7th grade, yes 7th grade, and the beginning of the school year so we're talking he'd of been 12 years old most likely, and they demanded he submit to random drug testing if he wanted to play football. Girl athletes provided samples in private in a bathroom stall with female staff outside the stall and boys did it at a urinal with male staff observing from the rear of the boys and that no genital observation occurred.
Good Afternoon:
I agree with Biker on his take of urocuff.
If anyone wants to question the company about their questionable practices here is their information.
Maker: SRS Medical
Sales
198 S. Westfield St.
Feeding Hills, MA 01030 USA
Dir: 1-413-821-9806
Tel: 1-800-345-5642
Fax: 1-800-886-2774
Email: order@srsmedical.com or
info@srsmedical.com
Tech Support
Tel: 888-233-1507
Email: techsupport@srsmedical.com
Corporate Headquarters
321 Billerica Road
Chelmsford, MA 01824 USA
Tel: 1-800-345-5642
Fax: 1-978-663-0999
As far as the healthcare system goes I feel it's going to get worse.
Female healthcare workers are already emboldened to behave in a wrongful manner towards their male patients because they are allowed to get away with it.
If Kamala Harris wins next month's election, I feel men won't stand a chance at seeing the scales come closer to the middle in healthcare.
We have no advocates in the healthcare industry willing to hear us much less stand with us.
When even more men walk away from needed care, the medical community will just blame males for not taking better care of themselves.
It's a bleak situation right now but I refuse to believe men working together as women have cannot right this ship.
Right now a lot of men are working in concert with their women trying to get their abortion rights back.
If democrats win next month & they are successful at codifying Roe v Wade into law I plan on using that situation to try & get women to turn around & help their men with this healthcare issue.
Whether women want to believe it or not they alone don't have enough votes to win the election. They need the male vote which we are freely giving them.
It's time they lent their voices to our own against this broken healthcare system.
That's all for now.
Regards,
NTT
Good Afternoon:
In regards to EM's UroCuff issue, what I don't understand is this.
1. Why doesn't SRS Medical have practice simulators on hand to bring to the client site to teach personnel instead of using live patients. The simulator sales rep be thee male or female could show them how to wrap it around & secure it using the simulator. Why embarrass a live patient? They use simulators in nursing school to teach urinary catheterization.
2. Doctors are affiliated with hospitals, & hospitals with medical & nursing schools. Why can't the doctor get a paid model the schools use to come in for the training?
3. The doctor could just send their employees for training.
So much for medical people thinking out of the box.
Here's SRS Medical's info.
Sales
198 S. Westfield St.
Feeding Hills, MA 01030 USA
Dir: 1-413-821-9806
Tel: 1-800-345-5642
Fax: 1-800-886-2774
Email: order@srsmedical.com or
info@srsmedical.com
Corporate Headquarters
321 Billerica Road
Chelmsford, MA 01824 USA
Tel: 1-800-345-5642
Fax: 1-978-663-0999
On to another subject. Women's reproductive rights. Women are fighting hard to get their reproductive rights back. Many of their men are fighting & voting right along side them.
If they succeed they have to acknowledge they couldn't have done it without their male counterparts voting with them.
After their rights are secured, we should ask them to lend their voices to our own in our fight to get the dignity & privacy we deserve from this broken healthcare system.
They surely wouldn't deny us after all we helped them get back what was take from them.
That's all for now.
Have a great evening & keep on fighting. Every battle we win we get closer to winning the war.
Regards,
NTT
I might be repeating myself here, but I understand how mortaluzing it would be to be subjugated in the presence of a female "professional".
That said, a urocuff scenario (or similar) with a male handling my penis would drive me to suicide. I would immolate myself before sewing a urologist
During those far & few between times I've been exposed to nurses, their presence wasn't necessary, & on a very strong, cerebral, intellectual level I was outraged because there was no technical justification for them medically from my consumer standpoint.
Viscerally, I was too damn comfortable with my exposure to the females, & angry at myself for being so comfortable.
TC
NTT,
Women didn't lose their reproductive rights with the overturn of Roe v. Wade. It merely sent it back to the states bc the court system cannot make a federal law. It needs to be taken up by Congress or by individual states for it to become a law. Also, women to have means to avoid unwanted pregnancies and most of those crying "foul" as ones who want abortions to work the same as birth control. Trump is very liberal in his abortion views and has said the total ban of abortion by some states went way too far and needs/will be corrected. My argument back to those who believe women have the right to kill any human life they have created is why aren't men afforded the same right? In other words, a woman can decide if she wants the responsibility of an human being. Men on the other hand do not have that right because if a woman decides to allow a child to live and the man doesn't want the child, he still is legally obligated for the financial care of that child. Yes, I know some men will skip out but in theory they are responsible and their lives can change forever based on a woman's decision. What abt the men who would want the child the woman wants to kill? Again, they have no say. What I am saying is that if a woman can decide if they will allow a child to live or not, shouldn't a man have the ability to say yes or no? That is if all is truly equal and equality exists?
I have read some really vicious statements from these pro-abortion women. One in particular that I read frequently is all boys around age 12 should be required to have a vasectomy. How's that for not having rights over your bodily autonomy? The men hating crowd has grown and has become more vicious. They forget that is takes two components 2 make a pregnancy but they only want to punish one. The Left has energized so many in not reading the true stance of what Trump is saying so they can preach hate and instill fear because they know this is the only way they can win. It will end up harming a lot of people in the process. As much as I dislike Chameleon, I do listen to what she tries to say as it changes (coding) as often as her accent does based on her audience.
I also don't believe those activist women would help men get rights because I feel their main goal is to punish men. There are those Leftists in high places saying white men are fascists which is a signal they are a danger to society. If they only did the research that would discover Chameleon's campaign of Joy was used by none other than Hitler. Those RNs who harmed my husband did it during the time of the Kavanaugh hearing and 3 out the 4 via their social media were Leftists. The last heifer I couldn't find her political leaning.
TC, I fully expect you to attack me personally for sharing the devil's advocate views. Abortion is not a clear cut topic. There are many areas of grays in it as there are completely wrong views like banning all and allowing all. Also, your reference to Project 2025 is just to muddy the waters because Trump is not a part of 2025 as he is not of the RINO portion of the Republican party. However, Chameleon Kamala has switched her views so often that is impossible to be sure what her true views are as even Bernie Sanders attested to in his statement a couple of months ago by saying she would do/say whatever she had to in order to get elected. In other words, she would lie to get elected. Like Trump or not, he is blunt and generally speaks his mind but he is surrounding himself with people who have different views from him like RFK JR who is a true liberal at heart. I am glad to see attention given to what we put into our bodies because if we can fix that we won't have to have medical intervention as often.
Testing the system
TC
Personal attack? No! The content? Yes! Whoever wrote this incoherent vrant totally undermined their credibility by invoking the concept of the mandatory vasectomies for 12 year olds?
(Such random verbiage! Why bring up JFK JR, in what's supposed to be a serious debate? He's as much a joke as forced vasectomies.)
Whenever a conservative in this group pushed back against my political observations, it's usually airg a lie. Last January I pointed out that backward southern states have introduced torte reform under the guise of "lowering health cists" & it hasn't. One conservative woman (I think it was you) in a childish attempt at one-upmanship ,snapped, "Your Democrat California
governor isn't doing anything to overturn torte reform! " Never have there been monetary limits on injury, or malpractice awards.
All the Right can stand on is lies, & making Ng stuff up, & yeah, Trump speaks his mind: LIES, bluster, race-baiting. He is a misogynist, racist & a bully, & that's precisely the appeal to his base -- & he doesn't care about them because they're not billionaires.
State Rights! State Rights! Dog whistle language! Blacks need Federal protection from rednecked state laws & policies, So do LGBT & women need Federal protection.
Kate Cox needed Federal protection from the Texas Supreme Court that denied her a life saving abortion , & had to leave the state. She's now sterile.
Amber Nicole Thurman needed Federal protection from Georgia law makers & didn't get it. She died! She was killed by the goose steppers who overturned Roe vs Wade & then voted in favor of Dobbs vs Jackson.
You defend this death cult?
Another lie is that I referenced project 2025 (you sure sound like JR) & I didn't.
That said, the republicans want it & will get it. Trump is playing dumb when asked about it, because of his base heard the truth from him, they'd wake up.
TC
TC Yes, I am JR. Oops abt the Project 2025 as I have been arguing with some uninformed person on a Patient platform that Project 2025 is merely a wish list for group and not law nor is it the platform of Trump. If my mistake is a lie then yours saying I said JFK JR is a lie as I referenced RFK JR. Just as there is in the DemocRat party there is a split in the Republican party which means not all in the party thinks alike. California had a cap on pain and suffering since of $250K since 1975 which this area is generally part of malpractice settlements. Another area is that most catholic hospitals will not perform abortions or even female sterilization and I don't see any up in arms abt this. There was an article a few years back that a pregnant woman who wanted sterilization done while a c-section was being performed was in car accident. She was taken to a catholic hospital and they denied the sterilization which caused her to have to have a whole another separate procedure. This has gone on for years. BTW, most catholics have historically been DemocRats. I do not defend states that have gone too far in totally banning abortion but I do defend that Roe v. Wade needed to be overturned to either each state could make their own law via voter's wishes or Congress could make a national law. If you had read I did also say in my post the part abt Congress passing a law. BTW, do you have the same outrage when someone is forced to take the covid shot? Many Leftists still believe that ppl should not have the right to refuse what is put into their bodies but should have the right to say what is taken out. As for the forced vasectomies, I did not say I supported but rather some radically Leftists were making this argument so get your facts straight. As for race-baiting, have you listened to Kamala. That's real race baiting and lies. Even her VP can't seem to tell the truth. Remember he's the one who is friends with school shooters straight from his mouth during debate. Also, you are labeling me as a conservative which is a lie. I push back equally when I see things that need pushed back on. Have you heard the term "independent"? As far as women's protection than why isn't the federal government protecting biologic females in sports? JR
JR you are too vg , too incoherent &π° ' too illiterate to argue g me. Same y with Banterings.
I didn't refer to RFK JR as a "lie*, I referred to him as a jike
You are clutching at straws, with nonsense & false equivalents to defend your party.
Over a million people died from covid & it's cool ntagious like polio & TB. people are "forced" to have covid shots anyway
TC, You are hilarious even if you are a bully! You didn't refer to RFK JR as a lie but did refer to him as a "jike" along with "(Such random verbiage! Why bring up JFK JR, in what's supposed to be a serious debate? He's as much a joke as forced vasectomies.)" FYI, it is a lie when you said I brought up JFK JR when I clearly only brought up RKF JR. Do you now comprehend?
Seriously, have you read the garbage you put on here. You are truly incoherent because just about every sentence contains mumbled garbage. For example: "JR you too vg, too incoherent &π° ' too illiterate to argue g me. Same y with Banterings." Is this a new language?
The reason I initially brought up RFK JR is because he is one of the few who gets the problem of what is making us sick. It is the food we ate. Nowhere else in the world do they allow so much poison in food. Even our pet food is full of poisons. This may be above your head but in order to stop needing healthcare services so much, we must become healthier. What we eat helps keeps the medical mafia in business thus enabling them to grow more powerful, more in control and certainly more greedier.
You were talking about covid and said "it's cool ntagious like polio & TB. people are "forced" to have covid shots anyway" Have no idea if you really had a valid thought there. Yes, millions died from covid just as millions have died from flu over the years. A point worth making is that more died from covid under your man Joe than under Trump. Maybe this was because Joe spouted misinformation about if you get the covid shot, you won't get covid? JR
This story is one I found recently. It is very interesting because I have a friend who had 4 inches of muscle removed from each calf. There was no pathology report. She also did not consent for this to happen. The man who removed the muscle is a podiatrist. In my state, podiatrists are only licensed for below the ankle area. She holds a Bachelor's in physical fitness but is no longer able to work in her field because she is basically maimed. She filed a malpractice suit but the panel said there was an "under the table" agreement giving him permission to maim her. You can see how corrupt the medical board is because if this was so shouldn't they have an issue with this? A major news network did do a story about how corrupt the medical board is in this state. Both she and I feel her healthy muscles were harvested for a transplant because according to everything we have found, they are mandated to send anything removed to the lab but didn't.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/18/kentucky-man-wakes-up-organ-harvesting
Just for the record, I am not saying the organ donation program is not a good thing. However, this story is very scary and again demonstrates what we have been saying here on this blog: There is an ethical issue maybe even severe moral corruption within the medical system.
The doctors in the cath lab who did the test to see if his heart was viable knew the patient wasn't "brain dead" as he starting moving so they merely gave him more sedation. Lucky for this man the doctors who were supposed to harvest his heart saw him move, cry and refused to go on even the organ donor rep saying to go on and she was trying find other doctors.
Besides trying to prematurely take this patient's organ and even though they did a cath test on the heart, I would think that harvesting a heart or really any organ from someone with a substance abuse problem would present risks. I would also question if they would or have harvested organs from homeless people because they feel those people won't be missed and they can get away with it?
As why many patients are unnecessarily exposed, money seems to be the motivating factor. Organ harvesting/transplanting is big business. So with this you have to wonder how many lives have been prematurely? We know that we as patients do not truly matter despite all the lip service we are given because if we mattered we would be treated with respect (ie. no unnecessary exposure). Again, the reason I say no unnecessary exposure is because being unnecessarily exposed even to the same sex provider is still disrespect even though some may not be as uncomfortable. Also, it be a sexual turn-on for that provider because you do not know their sexual preference(s). JR
TC's last reply to JR EVER part 1
First off you were intellectually dishonest assuming the role of Devil's advocate. Devil's advocacy is hypothetical, & you are 100% behind the devil.
RFK's brain is worm-eaten literally, he's so crazy that his friends, family '& wife disavowed him &more importantly, he is completely irrelevant in the political arena. Everybody's laughing at him. He belongs in NO serious discussion. If you are looking for a spoiler, Kill Stein is your woman, as she's taking away democratic votes on the issue of funding Israel's war machine. But you're increasingly losing credibility with random reference to RFK, as well as "forced vasectomies for 12 year olds. If that's not a typical right wing fabrication, anybody advocating that, left or right, is way out on the fringe , & too crazy to be part of any serious discour
You're saying too much random stuff off the top of your head. Aafter I specifically declining Dr B's suggestion to be counseled by you (after my sardonic TylenolI overdose) , you inappropriately threw at me that you're a middle aged woman, apparently a feeble & inappropriate effort to discredit me based on my self-admitted "Shallow Hal" romantic tendencies, when romance was contextually irrelevant here between you & me. More loss of credibility & you keep digging that hole.
JR, right from the start, after I exclaimed that our patient Rights are as good as our ability to enforce them, I submitted only as an analogy, that unarmed black motorists have the rigt to live but it doesn't keep police from killing them. Just am analogy but you just couldn't resist jumping on it OUT OF CONTEXT, & asking "what about the rights of whites" those words coming off like a typical southern racist, & I say it is intrinsically racist to deny how much worse blacks have it than whites. Whites have it bad, but per Capita, they are not profiled, hassled & killed by police, as unarmed black motorists have been.
You really are diffuse, all over the place, jumping from one subject to anither, another confusion tactic, but I'll answer to your COVID inquiry anyway -- even though I have to be diffuse myself (All over the place) in reactions. COVID is a pandemic that killed a million people, & it's as contagious & is nearly as deadly to innocent, unsuspecting people as TB & Polio. How can you conflate COVID shots to forced pregnancies that end in death to the mother, & be taken seriously? (Yeah, you guys don't even care if she's raped or if her health is in danger, yet you're somehow "pro life"!) Besides lying, such FALSE EQUIVALENCIES (along with lies) are are only what the Right can conjure up, & you have to be pretty damn stupid to buy them.
Also, the Right does really bad shit that it typically blames the Left for. Case in point. Clinton (a traitor to his base) got rid of Glass-Steigal & reinstituted hedge funds with Gramm-Leach Bliley, which in less than a decade caused the firR bank crash in 80 years. Mark Levin & other Right Wing talk show hosts blame the 1979 Community Eeinvestment Act (after 29 years?) for forcing bank loans for poor black people. No! Not a single loan was forced! The banks gave loans to both poor white & black people, knowing it would be more profitable to disclose because they had minipykated the rules through lobbying. The 1979 CRA only limited "Red-lining" & surely would've caused the bank crash sooner if it had a role. It was scapegoating by the right, with a blatant element if race-baiting.
TC
TC's Last Reply to JR EVER part 2
After engaging in blatant election fraud, the Right then blames "voter fraud" to distract! us from: DeBolt voter machines that flip votes; calling an end to the vote counting in 2000 (Florida) & 2016 (Texas); CAGING (JR I doubt you know what caging is) voter intimidation of minorities. What has the Right done to cover up for their corruption? Invented a term called election fraud in which they claim minority individuals vote illegally, or vote twice. It doesn't exist. Back in 2008 only about 16-20 cases of convicted felons mistakingly voted, one in Minnesota turned herself in & asked to retract her vote -- & it wasn't, but she went to prison. Anne Coulter commuted voter fraud in that election by giving her realtors address as her own, but she wasn't arrested.
"Voter fraud" is fabricated hysteria with two goals: 1) to distract from Right wing ELECTION FRAUD; 2) to prevent blacks, Latinos, & now women from voting by intimidation, threats or trickery because the Right can't win without cheating. JR do you even know what caging is & why it's under a 1972 DOJ restraining order not enforced?
Besides lying (employing Goebbels strategy of telling lies, then repeating it over & over again, the Right is the pot blaming the kettle fur being black. It has undermined our middle class with deregulation & lassez faire economics, then inflamed their dumb followers by blaming regulations that NO LONGER EVEN EXIST! I have news for you. It never "trickles down" neither in the 20s when JP Morgan counted the term & caused the Republican Great Depression, or now. It floats up.
Liberals: are responsible for woman suffrage cons fought it
Liberals ended child labor, cons fought it
Liberals regulated the banks that stole money from us by instituting Glass Stiegal, & got rid of hedge funds, & cons fought it
Liberals Created the NLRB & the Wagner act in which unions built the middle class; living wages; vacations; benefits; the 40 hour work week, unemployment compensation, & overtime pay. Cons fought it.
Liberals gave us clean air & water, cons fought it.
People polled all agree with the above liberal policies, but somehow identify themselves as conservatives! It's just a superficial "bandwagon" effect, from the corporate media liberal bashing & making liberal a dirty 4 letter word. People are steep!
TC
TC's Last Reply to JR EVER! PART 3
BTW, this postings you recycled in am attempt to discredit me were a result of my android going haywire while trying to directly post, as I can't afford a new one . This is cut & pasted from my email now, to much time to waste in you, but.. ,
Jr your "cute" reference to McCarhy's derogatory DemocRat term, didn't go unnoticed . Only a backward reactionary would want to align himself with that monster , & you continually show your true colors. That said, I think they are rats myself, & this might surprise you, but I am not riding any political "bandwagon" or somehow stuck in symbolism or imagery. I go by actual facts.
Carter was the first to sell out the middle class by embracing "Thatcherism" & deregulating the trucking industry, even before Reagan fIred PATCO!
Clinton signed the Telecommunications Act giving free reign to wealthy Rupert Murdoch mogels to monopolize the air waves (& then they have the nerve to call the media "elite liberal' over & over again, so you all believe it. No! No mainstream media is liberal, it's all corporate. Even PBS has commercials, & MSNBC is owned by GE, & they fired Kieth Oberman.)
Clinton overturned Glass-Stegal allowing banks to Invest & gamble with our hard urned money.
Clinton reinstituted hedge funds by signing Gramm-Leach-Bliley that enabled "bansters" to vet on anything.
It was the reckless investments & bets on bets, that caused the crash of 200!
Obama got millions from the corporations & they got billions back.
Joe Biden was a corporate whore of them all, as Senator & vice-president, but found His & got progressive as president. Inspire of his miserable showing as a candidate, he was arguably the most liberal president since Dwight Eisenhower. Google the 1956 Republican platform & you'll be shocked at how liberal he is.
The truth is that democrats have been taking us down the same road, but at a slower rate. As Bill Mahr said, there's no left anymore. The left moved to the right, & the right moved to the insane asylum.
TC
TCs Last reply to JR ever Part 4
So it's established Joe isn't really my guy, as he's a moral coward for disallowing the Ukraine to defend itself, while funding Israel's bombing. But I'll tell you one thing about Joe! He isn't a 34 count convicted felon, nor is he a rapist like Trump, who was adjudicated in civil court to have raped E. Jean Carrol (awarded $5 million)& Trumps appeal was denied.
Joe hasn't committed treason, as p refused to accept the fair election results & stirred up a treasonous insurrection resulting in an attempted assassinations of Nancy Pelosi, & the death of 8 including 3 policemen followed by suicides of injured policemen. .
He politicized the justice department, obstructed the Mueller investigation & if reelected we will see the end of Social Security & Medicare as we knew it, he will bust what's left of the unions, & even brags about ending overtime, & will ultimately pound that final bail in the coffin of the working casting go f
Trump promises to get rid of overtime., & he will drive the final nail in working people's coffins
Trump supports Putin, & Latvia, Estonia will fall, & maybe Poland the Czech republic. He's threatening nuclear war, & we seem to be quaking in our bouts & willing to giving him everything
Trump is open about striving to run a dictatorship like Putin, & Hungary's Victor Orbin, in which anyone critical of him will be sued under bigus "libel laws & , bankrupted . He's also open about enforcing martial law, hauling all his opponents fur sedition (as John Adams did) .
His base is drawn to him for his swagger, & power, & want a piece of whatever he has, but they aren't only going to get fleeced. And you JR,, you won't ever connect those dots. You'll go to your grave saying, "those damn liberals!"
TC
TCs Last reply to Jr ever part 5
As for the pot calling the kettle black, you in turn claim that Harris race baits, why by addressing discrimination issues & promising her base protections? Conservatives use a tactic of claiming that laws protecting minorities from harm, somehow good ves them special protection (yeah, as you said, "what about the rights of whites?" ). Price tied minorities need special protection from things like lynching, figurative or literal.
I remember in the 90s on conservative talk radio, they made a big stink about after school LGBT support groups. They claimed no school funding, making them special (like it costs so much to have an after school support group) when, in fact, these kids wouldn't need the groups if the student majority wasn't beating both the physical & emotional crap out of the kids. By denying the support groups, they're only address Ng to the bigotry. Conservatives make these things out to be some sort of liberal "divide & conquer strategy. No, conservatives are just bigots!
Jr, you have it spot on when you talk about the specifics of dignity violations in healthcare. You have a grasp of how doctors & facilities are incorporated, profit or nonprofit, & holding all the cards. But your insight ends, & your disconnect begins in not conceding that corporatism a conservative! Are you even going to try to argue that corporatism is liberal? Then what are you saying?
TC
TCs Last reply to JR
Part 6
About corporate personhood, you clearly have no recent historical knowledge starting with the Powell memos. A blueprint for corporations to seize absolute power by suppressing the middle class financially, making them poor & putting an end to all social unrest. Nixon rewarded Powell with an appointment to the supreme court, & his plan to establish an oligarchy by means of bribery, campaign funds somehow being *free speech" has incrementally pushing us to fascism.
The next step was Belotti vs the First National Bank,1978, &: the ultimate was Citizens United in 2010, giving no limit to campaign contributions. This gives us the best government money can buy, nothing even close to one man, one vote!
My world view is based on historical knowledge, & facts, yours is *belief". When dealing with those harboring your kind of cognitive dissonance, one simply can't push back with facts. You believe what you want, same as Christians believe someone can live in the belly of a whale, have a child w/o getting laid, or arise from the dead after being crucified. The truth doesn't matter.
Perpetually, every time I put medical dignity issues in a political context, you've shown an aggressive compulsion to push back against me, defending tire political ilk, & it all started with "how about the rights of white people* . More often than not, you clutch at straws, take things totally out of context, & then call me a bully when I mop the floor with you in a debate that YOU STARTED!
Personal attack? No! You keep digging the hole yourself with your own ignorant words. In your own way you are worse than Babrerings, pulling nonsense out of your ass & throwing it my way. Well keep digging your hole, but you are as irrelevant to me as Babrerings. You are wished out in the cornfield with him.
TC
Hey! Are we all here sticking to the issue of the intrinsic and realistic aspects of the dignity of every patient. Are we getting what the new visitor wants to read about these issues? Let me and us know how all this conflict discussion, a lot political, fits to the title of these blog title. ..Maurice.
Dr B,
we are all at the mercy of healthcare facilities because they are corporations that have big bucks & have corporate "personhood" protection that we can't fight against b, & the gist of the problem IS political. It is not "off topic" in "modesty issues. I hate that term modesty, it's not fitting!
TC
Dr. Bernstein, I suggest not even publishing the political diatribes if they are not clearly focused on healthcare dignity matters. This is not the place for it and if allowed to continue it will destroy this forum. There are plenty of other places for people to express their political views and vent as they choose.
TC,
FYI, Leftists are different from Liberals. Also, the "forced vasectomies" is coming from the ONLY Leftist women on social media. I am not sure who "Kill" Stein is? No, it is not racist to ask questions. It only becomes racist when those of you cannot give a solid argument then it becomes racist.
Around where I live, everyone is an equal victim of bad cops. Again, you were the one who brought JRK JR into the discussion when I was discussing RFK JR. If he had remained one of the blind faithful, you would not be attacking him.
Have you read your posts? Probably have a hard time because of all the incoherent remarks but you tend to jump all over the place and really make little sense. You don't like to have female staff but yet mad at yourself because you enjoyed it a little too much. Seriously?
I can "conflate" covid as part of the "my body, my choice" argument because if I use your supposed logic then I as woman should be able to decide what happens to my body be it abortion or shot. Also, exactly where did I say I was personally opposed to abortion at all levels? Flu kills just like covid but where is your outcry about flu shots not being mandatory?
To answer some of your points: Libs fought for clean water/air so I wonder if those Libs in Flint Michigan are just conservatives in disguise? Libs but what I call Leftist have regulated so much here in the US that companies are leaving or have left for China, India and other countries. Problem with that is many of those countries do not mandate for air/water control so we are actually harming the earth at a faster rate because of all the pollution from those countries. Libs fought for women's rights but yet they are taking away the right of women to have their sports' leagues and to be able to play safely without the danger of being injured by some man who couldn't make it in the men's division.
As for your talking points on Trump, you merely just vomit up the propaganda you hear on the Left's media outlets. There is no need to argue with someone who has a closed thought process.
BTW, I won't go to my grave saying "those darn Liberals" as those days of Liberals are long gone and the Demo party is more aptly called Leftists or communists. I was once one of those "darn Liberals" until I realized the party no longer represented me. You see, I listen and I read and I can think for myself and change.
And yes, the old Republican party was wrong and unfortunately there are many of them still left. If you remember the Democrat party is the founder of the KKK. They still avow to that as they do whatever they can to keep people of color dependent on them because they know once people get freedom from them comes freedom of choice.
It is funny that while under a DemocRat president that corporate America has made the greatest profits ever. It is also funny how so many of those companies have Leftists at the helm.
You can believe what you use is "fact" as I know what facts really are. You never mopped the floor but I know you will believe what you will. And yes, when you put medical dignity issues in a political context, you do show how very little you understand. JR
Dr. B., A while back I had answered back to TC and then asked you to withhold it but this time I couldn't hold back as many of his rants are purely political and I didn't want to harm this blog. While I do believe that much of the harm inflicted on patients is due to politics from both sides, there is a different time and space for ranting about personal political beliefs. I gave TC one final answer and that's it for me because it is pointless. If you decide not to publish it, I completely understand but I stand my ground that TC is a bully as he has bullied others here on the blog for merely offering solutions to his dignity issues. I have taken advice from some here and although it didn't work, I didn't feel the need to attack them.
JR
Dr. Bernstein. That was me who made the post that began with "Dr. Bernstein, I suggest..." Sorry. Please don't allow any more angry or political rants to be posted. It is devaluing this forum and likely has already chased people away.
I found this site many years ago now and was pleased to find birds of a feather that were struggling with the same issues I had started to encounter. Hearing of people’s struggles ,adverse experiences and occasional victories some how gave me hope. My journey of negative experiences have occurred under the leadership of both political parties and although I have very strong political beliefs we are talking about an entity that operates under a system that both parties Pay homage to.
The almighty dollar. Our only hope is public awareness and accountability for the violations that occur on a regular basis regardless of party affiliation. I see the issue being a matter of the heart and man’s willingness to cast aside all human dignity. Number one is monetary for the establishment and in no particular order on a personal level due to a patients vulnerability it is a breeding ground for power trips, voyeurism and sexual predators. I believe the ratio of these types are low but we all know they are out there because some of the atrocities actually see the light of day in the public eye .I think we need to stay focused on what this site was endeavoring to accomplish which begins with transparency
I have been discussing with a RN on a social media site the COVR garment. She is totally opposed to it. She has even went to the COVR website and measure from the pic the sterile area trying to prove the COVR wouldn't work. She has published pics and done research which I will add is faulty as a person applying the prep solution should be gloved especially if the patient is completely exposed as their bare hand should not touch the genitalia. She said according to AORN gloving is not necessary but yet they show a gloved person applying the solution. Of course, the surgical tech site says they must wears gloves although the gloves do not have to be sterile gloves. She also said they may wear jewelry such as rings but cannot wear earrings. However, if they wear wears I have read they must be taped to prevent injuring the patient or tearing the gloves. She said the COVR garment would interfere with the sterile area like in a cardiac cath as the prep extends into the region it covers. This is not true. The COVR garment can be manipulated to allow access while still maintaining the patient dignity. In my husband's case, he was totally exposed. They moved around his penis to do the shave/prep but did not prep the penis itself as it is not part of the sterile field. I told this RN it sounded to me she just like to have patients nude for whatever reason(s) because there is absolutely no valid reason for any patient to be unnecessarily exposed. I told her that my husband's cardiologist is fine with the COVR garment and that he is the head of the cardiology department of a large hospital system. She then said it is up to the doctor as he is the head of the OR team whereas I countered the patient is actually the head of the care team and it is up to the patient whether or not they agree to be unnecessarily exposed.
This is the prevailing attitude of medical staff. They don't want us non-medical people telling them our bodily dignity must be protected. They simply feel entitled to do to us whatever they please in the name of medicine. There are so few of us who speak up. We need to grow that number which is why I do the weekly radio show with Cindy. JR
TC to Biker,
I didn't initially intend to make this blog my personal political soapbox, except pointing one very obvious perception no one can't deny! That medical facilities are incorporated, they totally outgun us with huge corporate dollars,& lawyers up the wazoo, Because of that civil works for them,, & against us. And if any individual ever does get representation, it will be some liberal legal aid grou,p such as the ACLU.
This sticks in JRs, & unable make a pointed rebuttal, but directly at me, lame, uniformed quid pro quo attacks on liberal, & they get so tangential & so confused, I can't rebut it without becoming diffuse oneself.
I had no idea she was, but it all started whenJR said she's calling me out on my "BS, saying that we shouldn't tell providers we were sexually abused!" She took my words totally out of context because she couldn't legitimately start a fight over anything else. No! I observed that alluding to physicians past abuse, comes at a certain risk, our credibility, our perceptions in asking for special treatment. I tell them all the time myself, & it sometimes backfires. that was my point, & She morphed the meaning of my words, just to have an excuse to start a fight.
LAatee I posted to someone who said,who said "we have patient Rights" that black motorist have the right to live but it doesn't stop cops from killing them in cold blood. JR harps in it, "what about the rights of whits!?" Duh, the reference to black having rights that aren't enforced was JUST an ANALOGY, nothing more, but true to her inappropriate MO took my words out of context, got sidetracked on a.non-issie just to continue her little crusade over nothing. .
Later, I wrote how torte reform has been established in Southern states obviously by va Republican law makers. (A fact even JR couldn't refute. from going tit for tat, by lying fictitious California torte reform laws that NEVER Existed.
Later,,Ed by JR, some of you made scapegoats out of undocumented immigrants somehow "getting better healthcare than those born here. I'm apposed to open borders (as are Canadians & Scandinavians) & don't disagree that healthcare & quality of life may be compromised by " illegals", but it's all just a pittance compared to what greedy hospitals & insurance companies due to us.
So Biker, whey haven't you urged our moderator to omit JRs political meanderings , other than you agree. Uou all have let JRr run rogue without a leash at my expense , leaving me to defend the myself, defend the Left, & dispell, debunk the misconceptions & misinformation! -- the essence of my 6 part rant in which I hot it out of the ballpark, leaving you conservatives mumbling "komina, homina, homina. (I see JR is still trying to save face, but I'm not reading.
Biker you tell us that politics are irrelevant? Back it up! Explain how Anna Nicole Thurman's death, & the near bleeding death of Anna Nuslick how that isn't a matter of patient autonomy rooted in politics. You want same fender nurses, they just wanted to live.
TC
JR I look forward to your and Cindy’s next installment every week!
I always find it to be informative and insightful. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Thanks Jeff! We tried. We have had on Helene Epstein for a few segments. She has done some great work in patient advocacy even testifying before Congress.
https://www.hmepstein.com/
A couple of weeks ago, I reached out to Misty because I knew she was in the area where the hurricane caused devastating flood damage. Luckily, Misty's house was spared from devastating damage. However, for those interested Medical Patient Modesty has leftover items from the auction. You can go to patientmodesty.org to check it out. Misty has done a great job in helping education the public about patient dignity issues. Jeane
An update on my UroCuff procedure.
I am happy to report that I misread the attitude of the male nurse and I had a very satisfactory experience. I had a great conversation with him and asked about his extensive medical background and thanked him for taking this job. I did joke with him and said I guess you found patients to participate in the training and didn’t have to volunteer yourself.
UroCuff is a simple 5 minute process where a patient urinates into a urinal-type funnel that empties into a measuring container. Electrodes are placed on the patient’s abdomen and well as their hips. The patients then holds the device that attaches to the penis via a slight suction which eliminates any leakage. The nurse stands at a console behind the patient. When your bladder is empty, the test is over. Afterwards the patient’s bladder is measured for residual urine via ultrasound.
I was simply asked to lower my pants and underwear and with minimal effort, this entire process could be performed without any genital exposure to the nurse conducting the test. I didn’t bother and left my pants and shorts lowered until the ultrasound was completed since I was so comfortable with a male nurse.
I did ask about the female equipment representative and apparently she has an assigned territory and the UroCuff is an addition to products she already represents.
This is a great alternative to standard UroDynamic testing. I have a follow-up in a couple of weeks to review the results to see if my issues are bladder or prostate related. I also dropped off a letter to my urologist thanking him for hiring a male nurse and how much I appreciated it.
EM
About the claim that I'm alienating potential allies", this blog is not a support group per se. None of you live close by & can drop by to check our my home theatre. You're not not going lie on my behalf to a surgical facility, that you're taking post-op care of me, so I can avoid an unecessary overnight hospital stay. Nor can you even go through the motions of visiting me. You're s not going to send me money, & you can't protect from unecessary medical genital exposure (my only defense is advocating for myself & shopping around).
So striving to have you as a type of surrogate, familial support network, isn't what I'm here for. I think a discussion blog:is a forum to put forth IDEAS, & debates are inevitable.
In a word, this forum, I value intellectual honest, & when it's compromised, it's all no good!
Most human adversity is inflicted us by others, not by just happenstance or natural disasters. People give me nothing but grief, so I'm unapologetically misanthropic.
Above people I value ideals & ideas (including symphonic works & movies) & look up on conservatives (PC liberals too) as adversaries, & by definition, they can't even be allies, definitely not friends. There's too much at stake & too much destruction of new deal policies & commensurate loss quality of life.
Furthermore, this is a tiny group, so small because nobody else gives a damn And in the long run there's much worse shit to worry about.
Last February when my knee scope surgery was redirected to a hospital in which I'd have to be naked in a gown overnight, I frantically sent out texts & emails. My lack of conformity apparently cost me some friends who were probably asking themselves why don't I just man-up & 'play the game' instead of whining to me
So when someone in this group goes so far as to suggest that I hold Antifa rallies on my front lawn (when I don't have a front lawn, when Antifa won't adopt unnecessary surgical underwear removal as part of its agenda). Then they suggest I hire homeless people (I can't afford) to picket the surgical facility when people will just laugh at us, well, I'm going to openly dismiss it as unrealistic, & downright ridiculous,stupid shit. What di you expect? I'm demonized here for it?
TC
EM, thanks for the urocuff report. I'm glad it worked out for you. There apparently are two urocuffs. One wraps around the penis, the other attaches to the end. Did the nurse explain why they use one vs the other? Are patients allowed to attach the one that you used by themselves w/o an audience?
I don't know what other products the urocuff company sells, but it is still wrong to send female sales reps to teach staff how to use them on patients. They should let her sell her other products and have a specialized male tech handle the urocuff training.
"Modesty is contextually a misnomer!" by TC
Private areas are for sexual encounters (solicited & once declined, it must end right there) & for going to the bathroom. So, why should person want, even demand arbitrary access to another's sexual parts & unless medical help is specifically needed & asked for?
There's no good, logical reason to coerce nudity except at maximum security prisons for the mutual security violent criminal inmates & sadistically controlling correctional officers (who deserve each other anyway).
A free society of law abiding citizens is a different entity, where free individuals should be free from being undressed like pieces of chattel, pressured into exams they don't want (for preemployment or just in general,) observed, supervised, urine drug screening, passive spectatorship by medical, & even non-medical staff who aren't fixing our maladies, genital exposure for epidurals & bunion surgery, strip searches, TSA gropings, female reporters in male locker rooms. (As poor as I am, I'd turn down a guaranteed million dollar contract to barge in on nude female athletes!)
" Modesty" patients are apparently a minority, so there's an implication here that everyone born with reproductive organs (& a butthole) somehow has "bragging rights", & that it's the natural order of things to "show off". By refusing, we're going against the grain & we are the ones with a problem. No! Those who capriciously & arbitrarily demand access to a strangers' genitals have the problem, & it's less a matter of we needing to "show off", it's a matter of those sick bastards needing to *fuck off".
TC
I must say that for the many years I have the urethral catheter in place, it always has been monthly replaced by a female LVNs usually and hopefully within a 15 minute period with no fuss or emotional upset except the momentary pain on the catheter's swift removal. Rarely,second LVN may also be present to observe procedure. And man after man enter the clinic and I never heard about professional misbehavior. ..Maurice.
Dr B, your remark is formatted in such a way that it's a reply to my observations about unecessary exposure for no good, technical medical reason, which is the norm. Expected of & demanded of patients.
Your catheter situation has some me eddary medical reason. That said, I'd inhale carbon monoxide before letting anyone catheterize me. The "other" is an adversary, not a significant other, & I just found my want them going near me, even getting a damn back rub from anybody.
Under no circumstances will I allow myself to leave be to 93, or even 73 for that matter. It's a shame, I look freakishly good for my age, but my knee & back injuries will be the end of me.
(About misbehavior: on the reviewing end of lots of it, from an NP screaming at me for not exposing my penis for a hypertrophied testicle (it turned out being a hydrocele) & when I did expose my penis, she held it as a prop while examining the wrong testicle. Other stuff includes female neurologist. (01/15/2015& Allergy assistant (July 1999) violently pulling down my pants w/o warning or permission.
Outside of genital exposure incidents )ambushes, attempts to watch ne undress or personally put me in a gown that I refused, I've encountered lots of playful flirting touching, caressing that I found inocuuous. On 12/06/2021 I drive be to San Diego to my old pain doc. His assistant sat beside me on the exam table, teased me to a point of annoyance, then she squeezed me really hard with both arms. (I was 65).. individuals "misbehaving" aside, medical institutions are endemically perverted in their aggressive desire to have gratuitous & unlimited access to people's privates. It's wrong, & if it were right, we would call those body parts " publics"
TC
Dr B,
Your reply seemesva bit of an invongrous response to my comment. However, now that you bring up catheterization, I want to remind you that it's always been one of my worst fears, & I objected to it so much, that when I came to in the ER after a suicide attempt, I violeny ripped out the Foley catheter, not caring about the pain. It WAA painful, but I don't regret that gesture of conyempt!
I woke up 4 days later (maybe from an induced coma?) tied up to the bed.
They offered to let me go home that day (no 5150) but I asked to stay a day to get my strength back. But they needlessly kept me tied up for another 48 hours, & the CA Dept of Health write them up for it.
I HATE PEOPLE,, & HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS ARE DOGS!
I am not thankful to be saved by them, they are just putting off the inevitable & making me have to do it again!
TC!
Dr. Bernstein, following your comments about your periodic catheter changes, I think for many of us it comes down to how we were raised and what we have experienced, especially when we were young.
I had 4 brothers that I shared a bedroom with in a 1 bathroom house, and growing up I never saw any of them naked, nor did I ever see my father naked. My parents were devout Catholics and we were not raised to be comfortable being naked in front of others. My mother never even changed my sister's diaper in front of me or my brothers.
6th grade with mandatory showers after gym was my 1st exposure to seeing other boys and being seen. Uncomfortable at first but I got used to it and slowly lost my shyness with other boys.
As a young and middle aged adult literally my 1st four healthcare encounters of an intimate nature with female staff included needless exposure and/or inappropriate conduct. They cemented a wariness in me and 1 of the 4 affirmed it isn't always clinical for them.
My bladder cancer involved two surgeries, a year's worth of BCG & Interferon treatments by a female NP and a couple dozen cystoscopies since then. I have had more intimate exposure than most ever will, most of it with female staff doing the cystoscopy prep. As routine as the prep is for me at this point, knowing that female RN's will expose me more than the male RN's do unless I specifically speak up, I continue to be wary going into each encounter that a male RN is not available. Even then the female RN's hover next to me throughout the procedure in ways that the male RN's don't. I am long past my days of being eye candy and I know it isn't me specifically that causes them to act as they do but rather that female healthcare staff don't generally learn to be protective of or cognizant of male patient privacy in the way that male staff do. The difference is that there aren't any consequences for female staff in the way that there are for male staff.
Biker,
Well said.
BJTNT
JR.. look up Judith Sands. She is a retired RN who wrote an article about maintaining patient dignity. Maybe she will join your podcast. Cat
Thanks Cat. I looked at her website and she has a lot of good stuff. I have sent the link to Cindy too. Here's the link for her article on modesty (which I detest the use of as it should be dignity): https://judithsands.com/modesty-in-healthcare-privacy-needed/ JR
Just for the record, after my Tylenol overdose, my PCP faxed in avcbc requisition to I did go to LabCorp, I went there on 06/26,& they did a completely unrelated blood analysis. (My dick even sent me copies of the requisition itself to prove she didn't screw up herself.
So I didn't not know 😕 f there was damage, I'm going tomorrow fir another blood test, this time bringing in paper copies of the requisition.
On 07/18/14 I had a medial branch block of my lumbars knowing that leg wobbliness is a temporary side effect. I dud notice it walking through my door after the procedure.
In August, even though the legs were wobbly, the pain diminished, even though there was a wall of stiffness in the lower back not presen prior to the 07/18 medial branch block.
Mud September not only he pain came back with a avwngeance & is only getting worse , but I haven't recovered my balance, even though I exercise, stretch, practice the stork. It's pretty hopeless.
It turns out that these procedures can cause permanent damage. Of course, the pain doctor will just spew out disclaimers.
Everybody was enthusiastic & optimistic about sending me out to a pain doc. Two back surgeons & my PCP. Now more harm caused by physicians.
I give up.
TC
Biker,
My urologist office has the device that attaches to the penis via a slight suction. It is my understanding that this device is the newer of the two. I was given instructions on how to align the device and the nurse was completely behind me, sitting at a console.
EM
I feel that political left, right or middle play an important role in the preservation of patient dignity and therefore I am publishing TC's comment he recently sent me by email. Here it is:
This is critical & doesn't differ from 19933 Germany. e descent into total Fascism is now a fait accompli. Ukraine, the Balkan states & even Poland & Czech will fall, & Trump will join Putin, Un Orbin, Netanyahu, a group of crazed dictatorial criminals.
Just letting you know the world's a bleak place to those us us who are smarter than most.
This bioethics group has too many dumbasses in it. They're not nearly smart enough for me. I have no tolerance for conservatives.(or PC liberals) who can't use critical thinking akills & see the obvious. BTW, those PC liberals threw away the election in swing states with their protest votes to Jill Stein over OINE ISSUE: aiding Israel's war. One issue! The conservatives? No issues. Blind faith. They are sheep, mindless sheep!
No "clinical psychological issues" here. I've taken a blunt, honest assessment of the world & people around me, & have reached rational & intelligent conclusions that are inevitably misanthropic. It's nice being 100% alone here in this quite, secluded, gated, property . Isolation drives some crazy, I thrive on it. Too bad I'm in so nuch pain
I had a nice "in person" visit with my PCP today. She & her s
The system here somehow had not published the following from TC which I had inputted.:
___________________________________
I had a nice "in person" visit with my PCP today. She & her staff happen to be the only solid, constant people in my circle (professional or personal ) I have genuine affection for them. Friday's blood test Not a trace of liver & kidney damage from the Tylenol overdose (unfortunately, that after sardonically taking 3x 650mg every hour for about 10 straight, sleepless agitated hours 06/05
The knee is hopeless, never will I cut it fyr joint replacement, nir will I put up with this pain. The back is hooekess too. Even my doc said that all my life, specialists have done me nothing but harm. Maybe just quit them?
-
When I came across this site I thought I had found a place where I could be safe from scornful judgment of others in regards to my feelings of the treatment I have received in medical settings. Now I find out that I’m little more than a dumb ass . Is it any wonder people are reluctant to share here anymore? I came here to escape judgments not have more heaped on me
Jeff is right. And anyone that is still here knows exactly what he is talking about.
Jeff. Please don't go away. There is occasionally an extra angry and abusive person who even gets hateful with us but you learn who they are and how to take them and we need each other in this group. JF
I have to agree with Jeff and Biker. We know that in general politics does play a major role in how healthcare is delivered. We can even point out how each party is complicit in allowing medical harm to continue to happen but the getting vicious with others and calling them names or otherwise demeaning or degrading them really only helps in keeping medical harm alive and well. At this point, I feel since this blog has become so hostile it is time to move on. JR
I turned 94 on November 6th and I still have the capacity to continue with
this blog and this subject. I do want this blog thread to be source for
individual ventilation on a subject which may be unique or some readers may find clinically supportive. Please stay on and ventilate. Ventilation can be
supportive for others and personally therapeutic. ..Maurice.
Dr. Bernstein, Happy Birthday, somewhat belated. I am still here and wish to contribute to this blog. I am looking forward to future ventilation.
Instead of coming here daily. I stop by every couple of weeks. The vile hatred of someone has completely turned me off. With that attitude NOTHING will change. Cat
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-urologist-sexual-abuse-e60d1c7c64e6f3e4ff0252deebe3f73e
This article once again proves what I have been saying: Same sex care is not enough as we should also focus on unnecessary genital exposure because same sex crimes do happen especially in this world where one day your medical provider may identify as a male, another day as a female, the next day as undecided, and so on and so forth. JR
Patients own chaperones is whats needed.. It never said if this doctor had any or who finally reported/listened to 300+ victims. The lawyers are going after the facilities that let this abuse go on and on for over a decade as well. Cat
I want to clarify my statement about putting ideals first, & above other people, & why I'm not afraid of. Making enemies. I couldn't survive without the social security & EBT benefits that liberals gave us & that conservatives are trying to take away.
Once it's gone are any of you here going to put found on my table. Political ideals count, & it's war!
RC
Concerning that NY urologist, sadly for many male patients, it will only serve to have more medical practices mandating chaperones for any intimate exam or procedure, and approximately 100% of the time those chaperones will be female staff; often young low level non-licensed staff.
The vetting process will never be 100% because no one has the ability to look into deepest recesses of someone’s mind. I have heard so many people declare that medical school prepares future medical professionals to be unfazed by the site of a naked body and then stories like this continually pop up! Knowing that there is no other place on planet earth that there is a continuous supply of totally vulnerable people,it is a perfect breeding ground for voyeurs and sexual predators. The institutions are fully aware of this and only become concerned with this when things get out of their control to contain damaging information. Yet they are the very ones that establish the protocols that allow these types of behaviors to flourish.
Sometimes it’s as simple as a nurse walking out of a room with a smirk on her face because of the pleasure she got watching a man’s face turn beet red with shame and embarrassment because he was just exposed unnecessarily for something that didn’t require genital exposure (been there done that) these kind of things are never detected but happen all the time. While we are told they are all professionals , don’t care, see it all the time, well it sure didn’t slow that urologist down. For people that have been violated in these settings everyone becomes suspect and can you blame us? It is a shame for all the sincere medical professionals but they have no one to blame but their employers because of the lack of proper Guard rails
Jeff,
You have hit on a valid point that I have talked about before and that is not all inappropriate behavior by medical "professionals" is what we typical view as physical, sexual contact. Some get their sexual gratification by making another person humiliated. This has long been a form of torture. By unnecessarily exposing patients, they do get satisfaction. For so many in this world, a "high" can come via power and control and where else can someone make another person strip naked for no valid reason? This is especially true for female health providers and male patients because in ordinary circumstances men are thought of as being strong and in control but not in the patient/health provider relationship. In today's world, women are being brainwashed into believing men are bad and have been trying to control women. You see man hate everywhere so we shouldn't be surprised it exists in the health setting where they absolutely can get away with "getting even." I believe this happens to a lot men but I also believe most men will not admit they have been violated in a healthcare setting. It is the macho brainwashing.
While I agree that men should not be in women's restroom, I am one of the few that also say women should not be in men's locker rooms. I remember when this was a big deal because the female reporters felt they were being discriminated against by not being allowed to invade private spaces. I truly believe that most including men do not realize that men are entitled to bodily privacy/dignity.
Because the medical community says patient genital exposure is no big deal, it is no wonder that sexual abuse/assault keeps happening and will continue to happen. As long as the medical society and really society as a whole does not accept that unnecessary genital exposure is in fact sexual abuse/assault, we will continue to read stories about 100s/1000s of patients being sexually violated. Sexual abuse of patients via unnecessary seems to the standard of care. JR
But JR..how can what you wrote can be permanently be eliminated? Is this a behavior which never can be
removed from the medical system and society in general?? And if so, can a removal be virtually impossible and simply
part of the problems of being a living human?
Dr. B I know JR will have a good response to your question but I don’t see elimination, ever being a reality . For me the question is where is the effort? When an institution allows for and more than often fosters an attitude of acceptability of demeaning actions because all social barriers of proper decorum have been removed in the name of medicine. What individuals or entities Felt entitled and empowered to decide what dignity’s a patient will be allowed to retain and which ones must be forfeited? For me there is no arena where I should be forced to except gender neutral care for intimate procedures if it goes against my moral beliefs as well as triggering me due to childhood sexual trauma. This whole thing exists as far as I can see due to their ability to fill mid level positions with women much easier than men mostly due to lesser pay. I think women enter the field because from my experience women have a greater capacity to be more nurturing and compassionate but I am beginning to believe that ship has begun to sail which leads it all back to the money.
Just because a person puts on a pair of scrubs doesn’t make them asexual but the medical world seems to think so. When I get exposed in a medical setting like JR said I have no idea if a male is Gay but if it is a female all doubt is removed and that’s when the problem begins for me. And that is when all options for me end and I get thrown into the proverbial ladies room. In the real world me being caught in the ladies room could get me arrested for some sort of sexual violation outside of a hospital. Of course now days I can just identify as a woman and be Scott free .
What a screwed up world!
Dr. B., It will never be permanently eliminated but it can be reduced. Why can't it be permanently eliminated? Because you are dealing with humans. There is a saying or such that basically says that in giving power to some they will get carried away and that is what happens in the medical community. While that is not always the case, there is the another reality and that some medical workers are just mentally ill or have been taught to have hate in their veins (no soul, no heart). Unless the next four years can unteach the hate the last 6 years have taught of especially men, it will continue and I do not see an end to this mental illness.
In order to combat the epidemic of sexual abuse/assault of patients, we need a lot of things to happen: better education and more training along with constant testing/review of skills, valid/true mental health tests done on a regular basis, better platform/system for whistleblowers be they in the medical field or a patient who has suffered abuse/assault, and more transparency in how care should be delivered and how it is actually delivered.
Transparency is something the medical community fears and fights against. They know that currently most harm remains silent/unreported. They know the government, the judicial system, and the media will help them in keeping most of their dirty laundry from being aired.
We know that even the basic things they could do to curtail patient harm will only happen if they are forced to do it and then through cases like Radonda, we know that even when there are protocols in place to prevent harm, too many times they are ignored.
Interesting enough, there are articles: Cedars-Sinai Medical Center facing civil rights ...
CNN
https://www.cnn.com › 2023/07/12 › cedars-sinai-califo...
Jul 13, 2023 — Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles is facing a civil rights investigation into how Black women giving birth are treated in its hospital.
Federal review 'raises concerns' about care for Black ...
GazetteXtra
https://www.gazettextra.com › news › nation_world › f...
4 days ago — "Our investigation has uncovered evidence that Cedars-Sinai may have engaged in a pattern of inaction and/or neglect concerning the health risks ...
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center facing federal probe over ...
ABC News - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos
https://abcnews.go.com › story
Jul 12, 2023 — According to the report, non-Hispanic Black women died during and just after pregnancy at a rate 2.6 times that of non-Hispanic white women, and ...
Cedars-Sinai facing federal investigation over Black mothers
Los Angeles Times
https://www.latimes.com › california › story › cedars-si...
Jul 11, 2023 — Cedars-Sinai Medical Center is facing a federal civil rights investigation over how the Los Angeles hospital treats Black women who give birth there.
Funny how such a place that "prides" itself on its Left leaning policies is still just smoke and mirrors. The medical community spends a lot of money saying they provide the best, compassionate care but patient harm happens anywhere because of the people involved. It happened to my husband here in the Midwest.
Much of the problem could be addressed simply by establishing standard protocols for common procedures. Each sonographer or each hospital gets to decide how testicular ultrasounds will be done. How each bladder ultrasound gets done. Each nurse or hospital gets to decide how abdomens are accessed. How groins are shaved. Each dermatologist and hospital gets to decide how full skin exams get done. And on and on. There aren't any standard protocols for any of this. Or if there are any that avoid needless exposure, nobody is held accountable to follow them.
Please, please..Identify yourself with a consistent writers pseudonym. Don't post anonymously. Without identification the understanding and context of what is being expressed is virtually absent. Maurice
Sorry! JR wrote the long that included references to Cedars-Sinai.
Who ever posted about standardized protocols is absolutely correct. There are many stand alone surgical centers and outpatient clinics that perform minor surgeries all day long and if the procedure is not associated with the genitals the patient is allowed to wear their underwear and in many cases even their pants if the procedure is performed at the upper extremity. And then compare that to a very large hospital system in my area that will perform the same procedure but require you to remove all clothing including underwear and put on the gown.
The reason they give for this is the OR is a sterile environment. The part they don’t tell you is the gown they gave you to protect your dignity is not sterile either. The second they administer the sedative that is also an amnesiac the gown is removed then you are laying there stark naked in front of everyone. I find it disingenuous if asked about exposure you will be told that everything will be covered except the surgical site. with no mention of prep.
I have quite often wondered if a simple question was asked of the surgical team after the procedure if it were a male patient, was the patient circumcised they would all probably be able to answer that question. Don’t forget that we are constantly told they don’t pay attention to anything that isn’t related to the surgery. None of that exposure was necessary especially for something like foot surgery but it happens all the time. And you have just unnecessarily revealed a part of your anatomy and something about yourself that many people hold quite sacred. and all of it was done totally lacking transparency/informed consent/and filled with deceit.
I have looked up the need for removal of underwear for pacemaker and it all depends on the facility but it is not required. A good friend of mine was allowed to wear his yet after almost feeling like I was asking a nurse for the launch codes in my request she finally revealed that they needed to clean my genitals with no real explanation beyond in the event of an emergency? Like what an earthquake ???? I feel sorry for all the people that had this done with their underwear on they will never know just how much jeopardy they were in with their dirty genitalia
Sorry. That comment about lack of standard protocols was from me.
I agree with everything Jeff said. The lack of candor and honesty from medical staff adds greatly to the mistrust that many patients have.
The issue of humiliation of men by female nurses in a hospital settings might be curtailed if the ratio of male/female nurses was equalized. When there is a homogeneous group of people, there is sort of a group mentality and the behavior is normalized because there is no push back. A patient must be on guard even when no exposure is expected. I woke up in a different gown after my recent ESWL procedure which required only a small portion of the lower back to be exposed. The act of moving to the operating table with an open-back gown accomplished what was necessary even when covered with a blanket. I will always wonder how the gown exchange was conducted.
EM
EM, I am unaware of how the prep/positioning for such procedures are done but if they needed access to your lower back and you scooted over onto the OR table while on your back, my guess is that as soon as you were out that they removed your gown and then repositioned you to get the access that they needed, and when done they put you back onto your back and put a new gown on. Yes, I am speculating total exposure before and after.
I don't think the nudity is about being sterile. A patient isn't gonna. be sterile if they are incontinent while under. Also most people take a bath or shower anyway. For keeping the patient clean just
lean have THEM put on a disposable pullup. I think maybe much of this is innocent on the part of hospital staff or normalized but they have to know. y now that many patients are traumatized. So it's somewhat about keeping patience from care so they don't have to work so many hours. JF
JF, in a case like this, there isn't any incision being made, thus making any sterility argument less of an issue than were there to be an incision. You are right that given they only needed access to the lower back, there is no reason the patient couldn't wear some kind of disposable underwear of the hospital's choosing. They don't because most who work in healthcare simply don't think patient privacy matters. The question is why don't they?
Hello,
Referencing EM's comment regarding the lack of male nurses, the fault lies with government indifference. The government-endorsed STEM program is designed to encourage women to enter the traditional male-dominated areas of science, technology, engineering and math. There is no such program for nursing which would encourage males to enter this traditionally female-dominated field. Any male field with only 10% (or fewer) females would raise red flags of discrimination and the government would enact Title A, B and C to rectify this inequity. This is not so with nursing. Why? Indifference to male concerns is obvious. Of course, males remaining silent doesn't help. Maybe a new "health tsar" in the in-coming administration would lend an ear. Possibly, we could contact that individual with our concerns. Let's see what happens in Jan.
Take care.
Reginald
OK, I left this flat earth society 11/05, but this groups tentacles has reached out to Quoras Advocacy for Change & censored my contributions . Never again. I'm gone from there now!
Their question
What initiatives can be taken to reduce corruption in healthcare industries?
"They ARE TOTALLY corrupt & thanks for acknowledging it. Unfortunately they all have corporate protection, & with conservatives taking the presidency, Senate, & House, the pro-corporate inertia will only intensify.
A totally corrupt Supreme Court will inky reverse any decision made in favor of patient consumers if it comes down to it".
My reaponse: was appropriate, direct, & spot on, & some less informed, less articulate , cowardly administrator deleted my answer because she is a Trump supporter, & I'm not. Kiss my ass JR & the rest!
I'm through with Advocacy for Change & it's Right Wing Censorship. Delete my contributor status & were both through. There are more important worries in life than showing my dick to a chaperone
Dr Bernstein, you urged me to let you post my PM to you, saying that agree with m. & you'd concur if it was posted, but where were you? You failed to set them straight that corporatism is dignity's enemy in healthcare, that corporatism has always been conservative since the Robber Barron's. Maybe coming from you some would wake up.
TC
TC
Dr Bernstein: How many times has JR had to dispell false optimism here by saying, "TC's Right!" (I am, my observations are well informed, or there wouldn't be any observation!)
Te.
To the contrary, someone must speak up & say politics, & current events aren't a religion you can just believe in . As Top O'Neal said, "you are entitled to your own opinion, but not you're own facts".
Do you think they rightly omitted my response after I gave an accurately pointed answer to someone's question. Again:
Their question
What initiatives can be taken to reduce corruption in healthcare industries?
My answer:
"They ARE TOTALLY corrupt & thanks for acknowledging it. Unfortunately they all have corporate protection, & with conservatives taking the presidency, Senate, & House, the pro-corporate inertia will only intensify.
A totally corrupt Supreme Court will inky reverse any decision made in favor of patient consumers if it comes down to it".
Even if JR wasn't the administrator who did this, her ilk on advocacy for Change did!
Right in censoring me or not, Dr Bernstein?
TC
An Quora Administrator in "Advocacy for a Change" unposted my politically oriented answer to a question whose essence is steeped in politics.
His (or her) motivation 100% impure & abusing her administrative power privileges to suppress dissenting opinion.
Do you all see the irony ? A mirror reflection of the same way th Right operates in Hungary & S. Korea. Declaring Martial law, using bogus libel laws against the liberal press telling the truth, breaking them or imprisoning them, & taking over their publications to propagate THEIR lies!
Orbán’s Lawfare against Liberal Democracy in Hungary https://globalchallenges.ch/issue/2/orbans-lawfare-liberal-democracy-hungary/
Orbin has taught our Republicans well here:
https://www.vox.com/2022/8/5/23292448/orban-cpac-dallas-2022-speech-trump
S. Korea too
https://asiatimes.com/2024/10/yoons-silencing-assault-on-s-koreas-free-press/
Russia too:
https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/05/journalist-media-legal-repression/
This group is going to know about how JRs colleagues at Quotas Advocacy for a Change operate.
TC
I've openly resigned as a contributor, & they don't even have the integrity to acknowledge it.
No apology or retraction will be accepted. I live by the "burn me once" , rule! They're administrators have demonstrated absolute dictatorial abuse, demonstrated complete absence of integrity. & I don't want my name or writings to be associated with it.
It is as irrelevant as JR is here!
I deleted my Quora account. Trolls be gone
Seriously, JR has admonished me not to alienate potential allies, but what more proof is there that nobody on advocacy for a change or here is a worthy advocate?
TC
TC you are absolutely a total asshole. Im NOT a trump supporter and admin that group. You are the only corrupt one. Your comments may make sense to you but not the rest. You go on tirade after tirade and attack everyone. Im not sorry to see you go fro. Advocating for a change. Cat
Yeah, I think come January, the "administration's" # 1 priority will be same gender health care, along with looting the Treasury & our hard earned savings & SS.
"Reality check please!"
RC
To Dr. Berstein and my fellow contributors to the forum.
I have been thinking about this for some time and have struggled to put my ideas onto paper. I must apologize for my convoluted and random thoughts but wanted to contribute my opinion and see what discussions it might generate. Some of this pertains to both men and women but I am concentrating on the male experience.
My main premises is:
1 - There will not be a major shift in the way male exposure is handled.
2 - Modesty for many people is caused by the fear of being judged.
I am basing this on
1) Historical perceptions concerning male nudity
2) Minimal empathy due to female personnel’s lack of shared experiences
3) Normalization of male nudity in modern media
4) Instinctual behavior of men
HISTORICAL PERCEPTIONS
I followed some links to the Dear Abby stories as well an articles documenting the history of male nudity and was very shocked to see how long it has persisted. The idea of male nudity during Victorian times seems in direct opposition to the modesty of the era. For most of history, women’s nudity is something to be protected and hidden while naked men seem to be flaunted. An exception would be the display of female breasts in movies. In many magazines of the early 20th century, it was common to see depictions of male nudity and it was considered wholesome fun. Magazine like Saturday Evening Post that featured Norman Rockwell type illustrations of naked boys and men frolicking in bodies of water were common.
As mentioned by TC and Biker in past posts, men have been socialized to accept this treatment and it is was reinforced through procedures such as school physicals with female nurses, forced male nude swimming and military induction physicals with female clerks present. The idea of males not being modest or not deserving of modesty is reinforced on a variety of media.
MINIMAL EMPATHY SHOWN BY MEDICAL PERSONNEL
Medical workers who have not had the experience of being a patient are unable to empathize how medical nudity can negatively affect a patient. Women do not experience anything that corresponds to a man’s involuntary erection. Because of this, an erection seems to be a major source of amusement to female personnel because of the intense humiliation and embarrassment experienced by men.
NORMALIZATION OF MALE NUDITY IN MODERN MEDIA
The pervasive display of male nudity in modern media has desensitized people and made male nudity appear to be common and accepted. I have researched various urological procedures that might be in my future on Youtube and was amazed to find the magnitude of explicit images of male genitals. Under the guise of medical information/procedures there are hundreds of videos that display uncensored male genitals. These procedures include vasectomies, penile implants, p-shot, Gainswave, priapism, circumcisions, ureteroscopy procedures for kidney stones, testicular torsion, penile fracture, TURP, Holep, Rezume, Eurolift, cathertizations, prostate biopsies and prostrate surgeries. Even when there is no need to display male genitals, there is little effort to censor the images. In contrast, there are only a handful of videos where the patient is female for procedures such as pap smears, kidney stones treatment, and labiaplasty. In most of these procedures, great care is taken with camera angles, draping, or censoring so that there is almost never any genital exposure of women.
End of Part 1
EM
Part 2 of 2
Male nudity is often used as comedy in TV shows and films. Men getting struck in the groin is a common laugh plot. Men are portrayed as idiots who are incapable of considering a DRE without ridiculous amounts of drama. Almost every movie and most television shows has a penis joke, particularly small penis jokes. Male frontal nudity in movies is common place and I can’t think of a single non-porn movie that has shown a vulva. There are hundreds of articles and videos discussing penis size.
Women are not judged in same way as men. While there is great emphasis on physical beauty, breast size, and perhaps weight, there is no real judgement concerning female genitalia. There is no such thing as “Tight Vag##a Energy” or “Big Cli###is Energy.
INSTINCTUAL BEHAVIOR OF MEN
I believe that men are our own worst enemies and my theory of about why men do not stand up for themselves is related to the instinctual drive that only the alpha male gets to mate. Anything that makes a man seem weak is to be avoided. Anything that gives a man an advantage over another man is fair game. Showing empathy towards other men is thought to be a sign of weekness. Admitting that nudity in medical settings is upsetting is portrayed as a failing. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to take a position contrary to the belief that medical nudity is no issue.
I am often entertained by reading Qurora and Reddit topics concerning modesty and nudity in medical settings. Men that express concerns are brutally attacked by other men as well women. Men rarely support each other the way women support other women that express concerns about medical modesty. There are many nasty comments like “He must have a small wiener”, “Get over yourself”,”Was he embarrassed as a baby when his mother changed his diaper”, etc. The men that respond negatively to any concerns of modesty go to great lengths to sound macho. They will state that they are not concerned at all and many say that they have female primary care, female urologists, female dermatologists, etc. Who knew that women were so highly represented in all medical specialties? The most telling verbiage is that almost all of the male responders’ state that their doctors and nurses are young and beautiful. What does physical beauty have to do with their qualifications as medical professionals?
I read that most writers are men. If so, why would they continue to portray men as idiots when writing the stories? Why the obligatory groin shots and pervasive penis jokes?
I think this instinctual behavior will prevent men from standing up and demanding same sex care and prevents men from supporting each other. This reason above all is why I don’t believe things will change anytime soon.
Those of us who care about this situation can continue to advocate for themselves and take proactive steps to limit their exposure. I will continue to make it an issue whenever I am expecting exposure of an intimate nature. I may not affect any changes but perhaps I can plant the seed of understanding in medical professionals.
EM
Quora isnt an airport. No need to announce your departure. People come and go constantly. You keep saying youre leaving but keep popping up. Nobody is going to beg for you to come back. Cat
Sum of why males and females are treated differently is that male patients pretend to enjoy the attention when they are actually embarrassed. I don't think any female patients ever do that. Also female patients often cry when humiliated. JF
EM, I agree with you in the short term, there will not be a major shift in the way male exposure is handled. The main reason for that is like you say, a big part of it is the instinctual behavior of men.
The medical community loves the male exhibitionists as they have no issue if they are unnecessarily exposed for any reason. There’s little chance of any kind of trouble from this group.
JF you also were correct in that male patients (specifically alpha males), pretend to enjoy the attention when they are actually embarrassed.
The alpha male ego won’t allow them to say anything because to do so would be a sign of weakness so they smile & hope it’s over with quick.
Then lastly you have the modest group who expect their modesty will be treated the same way they handle a female’s modesty however, that’s not how it goes for men and boys since the rise of the modern days feminist movement which has made women feel more emboldened than ever.
Before their movement started back in the mid 60’s a female healthcare worker would never have even thought about needlessly exposing their male patient. It just wasn’t in their DNA at the time.
Today’s female healthcare worker is another story. They’re much more emboldened because they feel being a nurse gives them power over their patients & some but not all feel they have a score to settle with the male species and they’ll use that perceived power to do it.
The reason in the short term, there will not be a major shift in the way male exposure is handled is because men continue to stay quiet & endure the embarrassment and humiliation until they’ve had enough and finally just walk away from needed care rather than speak up.
If men everywhere in this country would finally just say enough is enough and start filing a complaint with the facility & state agencies every time, they are abused by a female healthcare worker the tide would change & this crap would come to an abrupt end. But it seems men can’t be bothered when it comes to standing up for themselves or other males.
Without documentation in hand saying men really don’t like the way they are being treated, the healthcare system will do nothing to force the ladies to change their ways or be fired.
On a similar subject, I recently accompanied a female to the emergency room for moral support as she was having chest pains & didn’t want to go get checked out.
As I was sitting there while they monitored her for 6 hrs. in this curtained off ER bay, I took some mental notes as to how that ER was run.
There was a good mixture of male & female nursing staff working at the time. What stood out was the way the different sexes treated their female patient.
Nobody introduced themselves to her.
The female workers would come in, not say a word to her, do their thing then leave without shutting the curtain behind them each time they came in. I would get up & close it so the patient would stay calm.
Males that helped here were a totally different story.
They told her what they were going to do before they did it from the start. They asked her if she had any questions. She did & they took the time to answer them until she was satisfied. At the start, they gave her a gown to put on. They told her they’d leave while she changed into it & we did then they made sure the curtains were shut & she had her privacy.
Watching how the two side treat people was a real treat.
That’s all I have for now. Have a great day.
Regards,
NTT
EM has very well mapped out the various reasons and circumstances that such an extreme double standard exists between male and female care as relates to dignity and patients wishes about who has access to your genitals. JF followed up with something that I believe is absolutely accurate. most men when put in a compromising and embarrassing situation will display the exact opposite reaction that they are really feeling. Quite often they will make jokes about what is being done to them there by thinking they are defecting any perceived loss of their masculinity and then somehow compartmentalizing their experience as no big deal! I lost my ability to do that after repeated degrading treatment usually precipitated by a lack of transparency and ambushing
Yes NTT, male nurses treat patients very differently. When my wife was an inpatient a few years back for surgery of an intimate nature. she said that the male nurses were gentler and more protective of her privacy than the female nurses. Having had many cystoscopies I can also say that male nurses have been much more protective of my privacy than have been the female nurses. I think male nurses know that there would not be any tolerance for any needless exposure or unprofessional conduct whereas female nurses know they can do as they will with impunity.
JF is right about guys. By time we emerge from our teens we have mastered the art of pretending nothing bothers us when in fact we're embarrassed or scared. To do otherwise is showing weakness that we've been socialized not to do. That was me for most of my life, and still is if thrust into a situation I can't control, but having found my voice I finally make my wishes known when it comes to healthcare scenarios such as saying I don't want a chaperone for example or that I want a male to do my cystocopy prep.
Great follow up by NTT
I will go a step farther ( but agree with Jeff, EM and JF) with males who seem to enjoy the attention rather just speaking up they are uncomfortable. Often times, they will become flirty or even become sexually harassing (this being the joke part). This is a huge problem because the female staff will start to view all males like this and will "punish" all for the actions of some. We know that sexual harassment of nurses by male patients is a real thing. Many of these nurses do not recognize this is a defense tactic that some men will use. Yes, of course there are men who seem to believe all women want them but the majority do not feel that way. (Most sexual predators are looking for easy victims than really being attractive to an individual person. They are looking for a type/characteristics.) The male nurse (I believe in Denver) sexually assaulted sedated female patients of all ages and shapes. If they had the body parts and were mostly sedated, he assaulted them.) I think it is more rare for female staff to have a sexual physical interest in a male patient than a female nurse getting a sexual feeling by having power and control over a male patient who blindly follows her commands or even better yet knowing the male patient doesn't want her to have intimate access but yields to her commands. This is sexual abuse because most of these encounters will not become physical. Again, I will say it that when a patient is exposed unnecessarily, that is sexual abuse because it is a one-sided benefit and that is to the one in the position of power/control.
As for what NTT said abt the male nurses, often times they do seem to be better in their care. I also saw that with my mother when she had a male nurse in ER. Female nurses do not seem to care. Nursing is still a female's world. Male nurses know there is a higher rate of sexual crimes being reported involving male nurses and so that makes many of them more careful how they act and how they are perceived to be acting. They know they are being watched more closely. Whereas we know most believe female nurses are angels of mercy and it is more rare for sexual crimes inflicted by them to be reported. I think most of us can say that filing complaints against female nurses for sexual inappropriate behavior goes nowhere. After my husband was assaulted by the female nurses, there must have been talk because the next nurse was a male and he made sure my husband was not exposed unnecessarily. He had two more male nurses after that and the last nurse was a female but by that time, he had his underwear on so she did not get to expose him. Males nurses have a really tough time because half the population thinks they will sexually harm a female patient while the other part believes most male nurses are gay and will assault male patients whereas most believe female nurses have no sexual predatory traits. You can also apply this to doctors. Funny how although we have made progress in equal rights that the assigning of bad characteristics to both has remained unchanged.
The last post was from JR.
Spot on JR
Excellent discussion by all
EM
Let's discuss the unnecessary exposure issue more--Some want only exposure to same sex caregivers which is where it is labeled a modesty issue. Having a modesty issue is then thrown back as being a mental health issue by medical providers as the reason they don't have to accommodate. However, I say I do not want to be unnecessarily exposed to either female or male providers and really for safety's sake, I want female care providers in matters of intimate procedures. Yes, I know you are all professionals but so are the cops you decry for whatever crimes. So are the teachers, priests, and all who are sexual predators with young children. This is about my safety and my care. This is about honoring the compassionate care you advertise to deliver and while you may feel you are comfortable (your definition of comfortable) in delivering it, I am not comfortable in receiving it. It is like a date. You may accept a dinner invitation but at the end of the dinner despite you pays or if it is "dutch", you still have the right to refuse any physical contact or really any contact at all. Even at the grocery store or a drive-up line, we can select so why can't we select those who come in intimate contact with us at a medical encounter? I would say because over the years we have been brainwashed into believing we must accept whatever or whoever they thrust upon us. Years ago, many women stopped going to male ob/gyns and now that field is roughly 85% female and 15% male. Change although slow can happen if we continue to not only educate the public but also the medical community. I just wish I could figure out how to reach more of the medical community. Cindy and I are growing our listening audience every week. However, we need to attend medical conferences and get speaking engagements with medical schools. Any ideas? I am going to write to RFK Jr about this topic. JR
JR thank you for your relentless pursuit on this topic ( and everyone else on this site that is trying to make an impact) public awareness of what happens behind those hollowed doors of a hospital is almost nonexistent to the general public.
All of us can recite our experiences at the drive up window when ordering fast food! And the same goes for our experiences at the grocery store. But the bulk of people entering the surgical arena are first time customers and only know what they have been made aware of at pre operative visits and I can tell you from experience that book has a lot of blank pages. Sometimes there are cracks in the curtains when you arrive that they find impossible to hide. This is usually pre and post operative. They always assess the patient for anxiety and make every effort to administer a sedative as soon as possible there by wiping all memory until you wake up in recovery! This way what they do remains a secret. It is usually the frequent flyer that eventually catches on and some of them have the ability to compartmentalize what happened to them and many others leave their facilities a different person and left to find their own way down a road with no clear direction. Many people never speak of their experiences for fear of ridicule and because of this the song remains the same. JR and Cindy have found a way to break open those doors and also Misty Robert’s with medical patient modesty as well as this site. It is a little like David and Goliath but ultimately Goliath was defeated. I can only hope and pray we can achieve the same goals
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