Preserving Patient Dignity (Formerly Patient Modesty) Volume 131
Now is the time to move on to this Volume 131. There are still many aspects of this blog topic title which can be "born" or further developed. ..Maurice
What have you been reading, hearing or TV viewing that has provoked some feelings of comfort or concern about what is happening in the world of medicine, medical care, treatment or science? Ethics is all about doing the right thing. Are you aware of any issues in medicine or biologic science which are being done right, could be improved or in fact represent totally unethical behavior? Write about them here.. and I will too! ..Maurice (DoktorMo@aol.com)
REMINDER: I AM POSTING A NEW TOPIC ABOUT ONCE A WEEK OR PERHAPS TWICE A WEEK. HOWEVER, IF YOU DON'T FIND A NEW TOPIC POSTED, THERE ARE AS OF MARCH 2013 OVER 900 TOPIC THREADS TO WHICH YOU CAN READ AND WRITE COMMENTS. I WILL BE AWARE OF EACH COMMENTARY AND MAY COME BACK WITH A REPLY.
TO FIND A TOPIC OF INTEREST TO YOU ON THIS BLOG, SIMPLY TYPE IN THE NAME OR WORDS RELATED TO THE TOPIC IN THE FIELD IN THE LEFT HAND SIDE AT TOP OF THE PAGE AND THEN CLICK ON “SEARCH BLOG”. WITH WELL OVER 900 TOPICS, MOST ABOUT GENERAL OR SPECIFIC ETHICAL ISSUES BUT NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO ANY SPECIFIC DATE OR EVENT, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND WHAT YOU WANT. IF YOU DON’T PLEASE WRITE TO ME ON THE FEEDBACK THREAD OR BY E-MAIL DoktorMo@aol.com
IMPORTANT REQUEST TO ALL WHO COMMENT ON THIS BLOG: ALL COMMENTERS WHO WISH TO SIGN ON AS ANONYMOUS NEVERTHELESS PLEASE SIGN OFF AT THE END OF YOUR COMMENTS WITH A CONSISTENT PSEUDONYM NAME OR SOME INITIALS TO HELP MAINTAIN CONTINUITY AND NOT REQUIRE RESPONDERS TO LOOK UP THE DATE AND TIME OF THE POSTING TO DEFINE WHICH ANONYMOUS SAID WHAT. Thanks. ..Maurice
FEEDBACK,FEEDBACK,FEEDBACK! WRITE YOUR FEEDBACK ABOUT THIS BLOG, WHAT IS GOOD, POOR AND CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVEMENT TO THIS FEEDBACK THREAD
Now is the time to move on to this Volume 131. There are still many aspects of this blog topic title which can be "born" or further developed. ..Maurice
Here, from EM's post in Volume 127 (November 2 2023) is a wonderful summary of this series of Volumes on Patient Dignity but also about the many years of publication of my blog itself. EM, thank you, thank youfor your research and evaluation. ..Maurice
Dr. Bernstein,
Congratulations on your upcoming birthday! I wish you all the best and continued good health.
You have created quite a legacy with this blog. I would like to thank you for the time and effort you have expended over the many years. I am retired now but can’t imagine being dedicated to something for over 20 years. I have seen several other blogs/sites that have addressed the same issues but none that have reached the quality and quantity of the discussions on your blog. It has been very therapeutic for me even though it took 8 years for me to contribute. I agree that the existing content should not be lost no matter what happens to the blog in the future.
I first found the site in 2014 and eventually went back and read all the posts since its inception to gain an understanding of what people have experienced. You added great value to the blog because of your medical background/perspective and thoughtful questions which prompted lively discussion. That does not really occur on other non-moderated platforms although there are responses from classes of people such as doctors or nurses. I don’t know how much time and effort that is required of you to maintain the blog but I would certainly understand if you were ready to step back from it.
I think the concepts of medical modesty/dignity have been thoroughly discussed and illustrated. Most participants in this blog understand what should be done to address the issues but the big question is whether there will be any movement towards the goals in the future or even how to accomplish them. I would hope that societal norms might change to embrace the concepts this blog espouses but due to the looming shortage of medical personal and the major problems the country faces, I am pessimistic that things will change.
The drop-off in readership could be due to a number of reasons. There are newer platforms that people may be more familiar with, such as Quora. I also think that interest in the idea of Medical Modesty/Dignity is somewhat random and occurs when people have a negative experience while seeking medical care. People who have positive experiences generally are not going to be doing searches on the topic. I also think that the horrific state of affairs in this country and the world over the last several years could have distracted people and suppressed interest. I personally find it difficult to think about the blog when we seem to be walking towards nuclear war and the economy/financial future of the country is in jeopardy due to indifference of our elected officials.
EM
A Worthy Posting today on Volume 126 to set off a discussion of "Preserving Patient Dignity"which should be more acknowledgment that there has been, within the past, some ignorance by the medical profession that the concept of the dignity of the patient exists and should not be attacked and injured.
Here is the last posting of our contributor Reginald:
Hello,
As I pondered why dignity is such a hard concept for healthcare, I mused regarding what has changed – realizing that what happened in the past was not always something better.
Thirty years ago I had a cardiologist as a GP. Yes, a cardiologist as a GP. That this was possible was astounding, even at that time. I visited him once a year and, the visit lasted for almost an hour. The session started in his office. Yes, in his office, not an exam room. His first statement was, “Tell me what has happened in the past year?” He’d then listen, respond, and ask further probing questions. After at least 30 minutes he’d invite you to the exam room while he followed with his black bag. (One would think that he was a doc out of the 1800’s.) The exam was complete – nothing missed – no rush. Bowel issues might be addressed in the exam room via a sigmoidoscopy, a modified colonoscopy without anesthesia. There was no need for another office or hospital visit. The exam might be interrupted as he was called out to answer a patient’s phone call. He could be heard saying, “No, Mr. Smith. You must take that medication for the rest of your life.” He’d return to the exam, apologize, and continue. His wife was his assistant and his receptionist. This was in Santa Ana, CA not in rural America. Sadly, when he heard that the insurance companies were limiting payments to 15 min. visits, he retired. He was too professional to be directed by non-medical entities.
What’s changed? Aside from the fact that a cardiologist could also be your GP, your visit took some time and the doctor LISTENED. An hour-long visit will not return but, LISTENING doesn’t really require much time.
Today, few in health really listen, nor do they ponder what they’ve heard. A quick diagnosis is made and you’re on your way. In a hospital setting, no one will listen to you AT ALL. For any procedure there’s a protocol and the protocol comes before the patient. Dignity issues are not addressed because they are not part of the protocol or, because they interrupt the procedure. No time is given for consideration of the patient’s requests for dignified care.
I do believe that this is at the heart of our responses (real or perceived) to what we consider breaches or dignity. Yes, there are bad actors; but, overall health care personnel don’t plan to harm. They don’t listen and, they are unwilling to spend the time to consider how protocols might be revised to accommodate INDIVIDUAL dignity. Group “dignity” is attended to via politeness and courteous; however, individual dignity is never addressed. This would require time and, getting to know the patient as a person and not a procedure. Is there any hope that this will change? What can we, realistically, do to affect change? Maybe, more importantly, the question is Would anyone in healthcare even consider the above explication of individual vs group dignity?
Reginald
WELCOME TO THE NEW GENERATION OF COMMENTATORS TO ADD TO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN PRESENTING THEIR VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT IN THE PAST.
REMEMBER, THE TOPIC SHOULD BE CARRIED BEYOND YOUR PHYSICAL MODESTY ISSUES BUT CONSIDER THE MORE GENERAL TOPIC OF PATIENT DIGNITY OF WHICH PHYSICAL MODESTY IS BUT AN ELEMENT OF THE ISSUE. ..Maurice.
TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN READING AND CONTRIBUTING YOUR COMMENTS TO VOLUME 124, BLOGGER.COM HAS SHUT DOWN THAT VOLUME (PRESUMABLY RELATED TO THE NUMBER OF COMMENTS EXCEEDING A LIMIT. )
PLEASE CONTINUE YOUR DISCUSSIONS NOW ON THIS VOLUME 125
I LAST POSTED THERE THE FOLLOWING:
I feel from a legal point of view of an ethics blog which this blog is an example, it would be legal, ethical and fair for this blog contributors to AVOID naming specific names of those individuals or institutions regarding their misbehavior or potential criminality unless you can provide publicly available news publications as reference that has been the resource for already having publicized that particular misbehavior or criminality. Specifically naming names of individuals or institutions which has not been already written in the news media should be avoided. We have to be fair. ..Maurice.
Since December of 2007 when Patient Modesty, as part of this bioethics blog begun, my question arises to my contributors and readers here: has there been any changes to the good or to the bad regarding how the matter of bodily modesty of patients male, female or otherwise have been interpreted and carried out? Any changes?
It will be of interest to read about any changes within the past 15 years in behavior both of the medical system and the patients themselves with regard to this matter. ..Maurice
These days, particularly these days, there is much to write about the preservation of patient dignity by the medical profession. Why these days? Well, it seems like pure politics has taken over important portions of how the medical profession is to behave when attending to the clinical status of their patients. Some might disagree but there is no doubt, at least in my mind, politicians both in government and in medical professional services have taken over the "steering wheel" or the "reins" of how the medical system is being directed to the patient. It is important, in my opinion, that this "take over" be fully recognized by all and something done to bring it to an end... a conclusion. I think that some in politics, law and medicine are failing to fully recognize and attend to this professionally degrading issue.
You should appreciate the value of what you write on this blog thread and the needs of your hopefully constructive comments and actions to promote a betterment of the medical profession.
..Maurice Bernstein, M.D.
FROM ME:
Here is a definition I read describing "patient dignity": being treated with care and compassion; • polite, courteous staff; having their privacy and dignity actively respected; and • having their views listened to and taken into consideration. Do you all agree?
FROM BIKER:
Dr. Bernstein, on the surface that definition is a good one but where it will fall apart is likely in their underlying definition of what "having their privacy and dignity respected" means.
Healthcare staff almost universally say they respect patient privacy and dignity. Then they turn around and completely ignore the patient's privacy by bringing in chaperones, assistants that don't assist, and other audience members to stand there and stare at the patient. They needlessly expose the patient in order to get access to the abdomen or the groin area. Most urology, dermatology, and other specialty practices make no effort to hire even a single male staff member for male patient intimate exams and procedures. Many small hospitals only hire female sonographers, and they in turn expose their male patients more than is necessary for procedures such as testicular ultrasounds.
So, a good definition if in fact privacy and dignity uses a patient-focused definition rather than a staff convenience based definition.
AND THE DISCUSSION CONTINUES..
Perhaps, as implied by many the participants writing over the years to this blog thread, the way the medical profession is behaving, in their eyes, this sign should be posted at entry of every hospital and medical office. The question arises is whether truly humane and worthy clinical diagnosis and treatment can really be accomplished without respect for the intrinsic dignity of that patient. How would such a sign reflect upon any dignity to be applied to the medical institution or its employees? If no attention to dignity of those entering and no attention to dignity of those providing diagnosis and treatment what is left to admire about the experience of the medical profession and their patients? ..Maurice.
Graphic: From SmartSign.com via Google Images
As can been seen and read on the previous Volumes, defining and establishing recognition and preserving the inherent dignity of each and every patient is a challenge for all those who attend them. It is a challenge which is not removable nor to be discarded but must be part of each and every interaction with a patient or even the patient's family.
And even a pet cat as a ill cat and patient deserves dignified professional care. Such an example was published on Volume 118 but reproduced here as presented by JR. She contrasts the pet's attention and care with her current and prior description of the care provided for her ill husband. ..Maurice.
As some of you might have noticed, I took some time off bc my one cat, Jimmy, was very ill and I wanted to devote as much of my time possible to him. He didn't make it so I needed more time but now I am ready to start working again.
I wrote to Dr. B. and he suggested I might share my experience w/ Jimmy's care as I am the wife of a medically/sexually abused patient. Jimmy's experience was totally different. Even though the family vet left Jimmy's illness go on for way too long without knowing what he had, I know he was doing his best. He and his staff were nothing but kind, compassionate, and caring towards Jimmy. Everything done to Jimmy was explained and permission asked. Completely different from my husband's experience.
The specialty vet center where Jimmy went for chemo was wonderful beyond words. Chemo and specialty treatments for animals is very, very expensive. They made sure before they did anything to check with us listing alternatives, risks, expectations, etc. before doing anything. We rec'd detailed summaries of every aspect of the medical encounter along with detailed billing even receiving a refund on an overcharge which truthfully we wouldn't have recognized if they had decided not to be honest.
During the visits, they would talk to us. They would talk and interact with Jimmy in our presence before taking him for testing to make sure he was comfortable with them. I remember once while we were waiting the tv was playing a show that was on tv the night I had to wait for hours & hours at the hosp from hell having no word for hours abt my husband (this happened while he was being sexually abused by Leather Hench & co.). I was distressed & so was my husband. I asked them to pls turn off the tv asap bc of the traumatic events associated with it. They did it asap and from then on there never was a tv on in our patient room. This clinic is actually just a few miles from the hosp from hell but to this day, we have never seen it again bc it represents hell.
On Jimmy's last day, I knew he wasn't doing well. He was supposed to get his 2nd dose of chemo as they gave it to him over 2 days each treatment time. His lymph nodes had swollen bigger than ever just basically overnight. He wasn't moving around much as it was getting difficult for him to breathe. I could tell Izzy the nurse knew he had issues as she took him back. Dr. W. came in a short time later to say he was in distress and needed to put a catheter in his arm while she still could. We agreed. She left and came back and we had the talk abt what was best for Jimmy for the final time as from the beginning Dr. W. had laid out all the scenarios and it was clear the chemo had failed and had in fact, caused the cancer to become more aggressive. Our son didn't like hearing that it was time for Jimmy to die before he suffocated to death. He said he needed to see the proof--the science. W/o any hesitation, she provided the medical evidence. She knew I didn't believe in killing them bc the shot can have bad consequences but she explained she doesn't merely give a shot but goes in through the catheter with a pre-med. Once it works, she goes in again through the catheter & administers the drug that actually kills so there are no horrific side effects of being killed. She said she would arrange for it to be as peaceful as possible. She did.
She had us taken to another room that is not an exam room but rather a private family space. She came back with Jimmy all wrapped up in these think furry blankets. She told us to spend time with him as he was stable for the moment. We all held Jimmy. He got up and moved around. She and Izzy came back and arranged us on the floor around Jimmy including her and Izzy. We sat there and held Jimmy's hands while she administered the drugs. All of us were crying including her and Izzy. She said would continue to cry later at home (she had told us one of her cats had brain cancer so she knew what we were going through). Jimmy left us very peacefully. Dr. W. had asked us what we wanted done w/ Jimmy & we wanted to take him home so she said she would take him back when we were ready & clean him up, clip some of his hair for me, and make prints of his paws. She also said she would take off his bell for his sister Danny to wear. I gave them Jimmy's blankets and later they came back with a packet of Jimmy's things and Jimmy in a little cardboard casket. She said we could leave by the side door and we could settle the billing later.
A primary care physician writing an article in 2010 on the
"Health Care Blog" wrote the following and much more. Read it and read the interesting back and forth discussion by the responders to the article.
Here is one paragraph from the writing. JR and others: will this view be acceptable to you coming from a physician?
I am not sure why people bristle at calling patients consumers; that’s what they are. They are also customers, participants, autonomous, and humans in need. This is not an “or” proposition. If we forget the humanity of patients and just treat them as customers, they lose. But they also lose if we forget that they are paying us and demand our respect and our attention to their needs. We are as much servants as we are professionals. Signing up to be a doctor means you agree to give yourself to your patients. All of them. It’s hard, and it’s complicated. It’s a human-human relationship.
..Maurice.
AS OF APRIL 21 2021, THIS VOLUME WILL BE CLOSED FOR FURTHER
COMMENTS . COMMENTS CAN CONTINUE ON VOLUME 118
bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2021/04/preserving-patient-dignity-formerly_21.html
Let's get started on Volume 116 with this video from YouTube.
It's about 4 minutes or so in length but clearly shows a potentially upsetting relationship between a patient and his physician and physician's office. On completion of the story, consider whose dignity has been preserved and which has been degraded. If degraded, then tell us: by whom? ..Maurice. P.S.- You can click again when the first video is completed to see more patient-doctor relationship issues as presented on YouTube.
TIME TO MOVE ON TO VOLUME 117 https://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2021/02/preserving-patient-dignity-formerly.html.
I HAVE COPIED MY LAST POSTING REGARDING "HEALTH CARE BLOG" ARTICLE TO START THE NEW VOLUME AND WE CAN CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION THERE. ..Maurice.
Oops! I just noticed that the title of Volume 114 was wrong (missed "Formally Patient Modesty) and didn't follow the recent Volumes correct sequence titles. I hope that error didn't prevent visitors to join our conversations. With this Volume, we are back to our correct title which continues the specific "modesty" issue which started this discussion from 2005. Obviously patient modesty and its apparent ignorance by some members of the medical profession, Bantering's suggestion to enlarge the scope and thus title to "Dignity" was certainly important when discussing how the medical system interacts with their patients.
I would like to continue a discussion I began on Volume 114 and to which JF responded: This was followed by another issue I presented related to citizen's freedom in self-decision making. ..Maurice.
NO FURTHER COMMENTS WILL BE PUBLISHED ON VOLUME 115. CONTINUE TO VOLUME 116 https://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2021/01/preserving-patient-dignity-formerly.html
I want to present here a general issue which stimulated me which I read on a clinical ethics listserv. It led me to consider the issue about whether employers had or should have a public health responsibility to require their employees, particularly those who interact with patients or closely with the public to accept being vaccinated with the COVID-19 vaccine or, if one their refusal being removed from their occupation. Is the employer responsible for the health of their employees and to the public who are exposed to those employees? ..Maurice.
I'll let you know if I'm required to get vaccinated. I've been wondering the same thing.
Another legal-ethical question which was raised by the clinical-ethics lisserv to which I subscribe: Should all patients entering the hospital who have not been recently previously tested for COVID be legally compelled to be tested? Would that be Constitutional under that specific circumstance? In general, should COVID testing be not personally voluntary but be considered a legal requirement, symptomatic or not? ..Maurice.
I find that Volume 113 will accept NO further posting. Please continue here on Volume 114.. Please do not write further messages to 113, I cannot get them published. ..Maurice.
AS OF TODAY DECEMBER 10 2020, NO FURTHER COMMENTS WILL BE PUBLISHED
ON VOLUME 114 BUT WILL CONTINUE ON VOLUME 115.