Preserving Patient Dignity (Formerly Patient Modesty) Volume 133
This is a Continuing Way to express your views of the current and past medical system.
posted by Maurice Bernstein, M.D. @ 2:57:00 PM
55 comments
Bioethics Discussion Blog
What have you been reading, hearing or TV viewing that has provoked some feelings of comfort or concern about what is happening in the world of medicine, medical care, treatment or science? Ethics is all about doing the right thing. Are you aware of any issues in medicine or biologic science which are being done right, could be improved or in fact represent totally unethical behavior? Write about them here.. and I will too! ..Maurice (DoktorMo@aol.com)
REMINDER: I AM POSTING A NEW TOPIC ABOUT ONCE A WEEK OR PERHAPS TWICE A WEEK. HOWEVER, IF YOU DON'T FIND A NEW TOPIC POSTED, THERE ARE AS OF MARCH 2013 OVER 900 TOPIC THREADS TO WHICH YOU CAN READ AND WRITE COMMENTS. I WILL BE AWARE OF EACH COMMENTARY AND MAY COME BACK WITH A REPLY.
TO FIND A TOPIC OF INTEREST TO YOU ON THIS BLOG, SIMPLY TYPE IN THE NAME OR WORDS RELATED TO THE TOPIC IN THE FIELD IN THE LEFT HAND SIDE AT TOP OF THE PAGE AND THEN CLICK ON “SEARCH BLOG”. WITH WELL OVER 900 TOPICS, MOST ABOUT GENERAL OR SPECIFIC ETHICAL ISSUES BUT NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO ANY SPECIFIC DATE OR EVENT, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND WHAT YOU WANT. IF YOU DON’T PLEASE WRITE TO ME ON THE FEEDBACK THREAD OR BY E-MAIL DoktorMo@aol.com
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Saturday, June 28, 2025
About Me
- Name: Maurice Bernstein, M.D.
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
Previous Posts
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- Preserving Patient Dignity (Formerly Patient Modes...
- Preserving Patient Dignity (Formally Patient Modes...
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- Preserving Patient Dignity (Formerly Patient Modes...
- Preserving Patient Dignity (Formerly Patient Modes...
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Links
- Bioethics Discussion Pages
- Complementary and Alternative Medicine Law Blog
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- Women's Bioethics Project
- Medical Modesty Blog THOSE INTERESTED IN DEVELOPING ADVOCACY FOR PATIENT MODESTY, GO TO
- THIS ADVOCACY DEVELOPMENT BLOG
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55 Comments:
Move on to Volume 133
Please, someone text a message here as soon as possible. I am trying to
get this system to work. ..Maurice.
Here's a message Dr. Bernstein. Hopefully this is working.
HOORAY.. and THANKS BIKER ..WE FINALLY GOT A VISITOR PUBLISHED HEERE ON VOLUME 133!!! ..Maurice
Do you find anything in the current Trump presidential occupation that has
improved or contrarily impaired the goals you hold as the best of medical system
service? ..Maurice
My nephew believes that AI will be a good solution for a substitute. I guess we'll see JF
Please feel free to SPEAKUP..of course identified by your selected and
unique pseudonym. You don't need to get a formal identification name
from the Google company to participate on this bioethics blog.
No I don't think the current administration will have any impact on patient dignity or privacy issues. Their issues, as with past administrations, always boils down first and foremost to who pays for healthcare whether that is directly by govt., via govt subsidized insurance, or via patient-paid insurance.
Of course the answers to those questions impacts healthcare accessibility for many, but that is still something apart from the main topics of discussion here. I will add that accessibility issue is more than who pays for the actual care delivered, but in rural areas, whether there even is a hospital. Many small rural hospitals are dependent upon govt. subsidies to survive.
Patient dignity and privacy issues is not a topic for the current administration, nor has it been for past administrations. In the context of what is discussed here, being those issues primarily impact males, it isn't likely to be a political issue anytime soon.
Biker you’re right neither party gives a rats butt about patients dignity and I don’t think they ever will. Without a ground swell of vocal out cries nothing will ever happen. I have brought the topic up to people I know and most of them say it’s no big deal, they don’t care, and it’s just a medical procedure. This is because they have been indoctrinated into the normalcy of what is done. The amount of exposure that men are expected to except from the opposite sex has increased significantly. All you have to do is look at the history of many things done today that didn’t even exist 50 years ago. Women didn’t do male catheters until sometime in the 70’s because it was considered inappropriate. The micro camera used in cystoscopies and colonoscopies wasn’t invented until 1982 the transducer used for sonograms was too large to use for testicular ultrasound until about the same time frame when they got the the transducer to the size of a Handheld wand these are all things that have brought women into close proximity to men’s genitals. None of these things were ever broadcast to the public. It was usually discovered by the patient as it was happening. A man is left with the option of excepting their mode of delivery or walk away from needing care because they offer no alternative
Enough of my rant but none of these things are ever discussed or acknowledged because one of the best accomplishments of the medical community is their ability to avoid transparency and Excel at deception and I know this because I’ve lived it
Does any visitor to this blog knows what it is like to be a physician- male patient for female LVNs and RN.? I am and I do and I just see them doing
their "job" in the same manner as with any male patient. They make NO
effort to avoid "patient genital exposure" than with any non-physician male.
I have written about this on "distant" volumes of this bioethics blog in the past. ..Maurice.
So that you know my current status: I am 94.5 years old and I have
an indwelling male Foley urethral catheter which has been attended to
once monthly in a nearby urology office by female LVNs for catheter replacement for the past many years. Yes, they know I was an active
internal medicine physician but they follow the standardized Foley
replacement procedure as has been established for all, physician or
not. ..Maurice.
Dr. B I take from what you are saying is they don’t discriminate their application of care regardless of status. Physicians and non physicians are treated equally. I think what isn’t taken into consideration on their part is the wishes and needs of the patient. For those that are comfortable and unconcerned with the gender of the person performing such an intimate task then I guess there’s no problem. There is a wide range of reasons that doesn’t sit well with many. Sometimes it’s cultural sometimes moral or religious reasons. But for some it’s even more intense driven by complex PTSD. I don’t know what the medical community thinks of these beliefs or conditions but from my experience not much. To take the stance that it is the patient’s problem and the emotional wellbeing of the patient takes a backseat to the task at hand is short sighted with a lack of understanding that the emotional wellbeing of a patient is as important as their physical wellbeing. I sometimes wonder about the person that performs these kind of tasks? I know they weren’t always comfortable performing intimate tasks on an opposite sex patient. What was going through their mind and what was their emotional feeling the first time they were tasked with exposing and intimately touching an opposite sex patient? This is a process of numbing down and desensitizing oneself to an act that doesn’t feel natural and depending on the provider’s internal moral compass maybe more difficult for some than others. Eventually they become comfortable with these actions and it becomes another day in the office. This is not a daily routine for a patient and is not always received with the same comfort as the provider. Coming from your background I can see your acceptance of what you have done on a monthly basis because these kinds of treatments became acceptable for you many years ago as a practicing physician.
All of this is driven by the medical institutions need to utilize the people at their disposal which would be 90% female. It forces them to normalize something that is not found anywhere else in our society.
In the meantime unknown numbers of people are sent out of facilities changed people and in some cases broken. But for them it’s not their problem and if they acknowledge anything it is that patient needs a check up from the neck up. NEXT PATIENT!
Jeff, just a clarification. The non-physician healthcare staff mix may be 90% female, but it is likely a far higher female mix in doctor's offices. Male staff tends to congregate in the ER, OR, ICU, and to a lesser extend in MedSurg areas of hospitals. Lots of guys will be found amongst the ranks of EMT's and certain tech areas like xrays & scans too, but rarely are males found in medical practices. A non-physician male in anything urological is a rarity.
Biker I 100% agree! to give a personal example, though my life I have had the opportunity to visit 3 urology clinics I would only go to practices that had male urologist but in every case every other person on the staff was female.
I may have said this before but my wife worked in OB GYN for 30 years in three different practices she said that she never had any males in any of those practices and never heard of any OB GYN practices that had males in the practice. When I asked why her response was it would make the patients uncomfortable 😣?
75 to 80% of all urologic patients are male so wouldn’t you think that they would try to hire a few males for patient comfort?
Sometimes when I feel like I'm the only person in the world medical trauma has impacted as a kid I look at some sites, like this one, where other people share their experiences. It helps to know your not alone.
But when I read this article I was astounded that it still happens today. Horrifying.
https://www.statnews.com/2023/09/11/vguc-children-test-uti-stress/
It just makes me realize that never ever leaving our kids alone for ANY hospital test or doctors visit was the right call. What happened to me was never going to happen to them.
A lifetime of PTSD. High alert 24/7. Avoid large crowds. Notice things no one else sees. Hear like a blind person because senses are so high strung. Self medicating. I never realized till my 60's I had PTSD. I just thought I was different. lol.
Doctors not so much a concern. Still, a little.
But medical staff, including nurses, that's a serious risk for a child. To staff this is just something they've done a hundred times. They need to get you in and out so they can get to the next patient.
The doctor needs the test done so they can figure out how to fix whatever is wrong. But mental health, your on your own. And for children that means parents have to step in.
Their still conducting research to determine if using 4 people to strip you and hold you down on a table with your legs spread open while they shove something in somewhere could be detrimental to a child's well being mentally. Seriously? Are we idiots?
Absolutely horrifying.
As a child you don't get to say "no" or anything else. In the hospital you either cooperated or you were forced.
During my 2'nd hospital stay I fought. It didn't work out so well for me. But I wasn't going to allow what they did to me during my 1'st hospital stay to happen again.
I fought until I was exhausted both mentally and physically. Then I just collapsed and went limp. A young boy being held down by a group of girls. Humm.. I wonder if that may have an impact on his mental health and life? We'd better research that someday.
I'll say it again. Seriously? Ya think....
It may be unintentional but that doesn't change the impact.
Parents have to be the protective layer. Doctors aren't. It's not their job. And it doesn't seem to be anyone else's job either.
I try and always include this in all of my writings. God doesn't do random, that much I know. So I know and have faith that what He allowed to happen to me happened for some reason. Some reason I may never know or understand. I'm still thankful even for this.
I think this will be my last entry. I had hoped that by sharing some of these stories some medical professionals might see them and think "Hey, maybe we'd better stop doing that to kids."
That doesn't seem to have panned out.
Brian i fully understand where you are coming from. My experiences started in early childhood and the damage that was done to me were not fully realized until I ended up in a surgical setting that closely mimicked some of my childhood memories that had been suppressed my whole adult life.
There is no way that the medical providers have no idea of the lasting emotional damage they can and do do but they justify it as medical necessity and never look for alternatives. Alternatives usually take more time and we all know time is money!
I totally agree with Biker and Jeff’s assessment of the willingness of any government administration to address the issues of male choice in healthcare. As I have posted previously, nothing will change until men start protesting in mass. Women are much better at group solidarity and were very successful as shown by the creation of official government agencies focused on women’s health and specialty “Women’s Centers” in many hospitals. There are a number of reasons for the lack of men in non-physician roles such as societal pressures where men are expected to “man-up” and instinctual feelings where men do not want to thought of as weak and perhaps sub-conscious feelings of competition with other men. I also think there is resistance from women to hiring men in nursing and other roles as they threaten the “old-girls network”. As biker mentioned, many men favor the more intense areas such as ER or ICU. I recently talked to a male student-nurse during one of my volunteer hospital shifts. He indicated that he wanted to work in an ER or ICU environment and eventually become a nurse practitioner.
I sometimes get very angry at the lack of choice of same-sex staff in health care. I am willing to bet that there is not a single gynecology clinic in the country (world) that has an all-male staff below the physician level and probably not a single urology practice with all-male personnel. It is amazing to me to see the number of sexual health clinics that are staffed by only women. I am lucky that my urology practice in Florida has a number of clinics with male PA’s and nurses. I must have under-estimated the number of men that ether don’t care or prefer female health providers because these practices and clinics seem to be successful. Perhaps many men have just given up and accepted the process as inevitable. When I talk to my elderly uncle about having intimate care provided by women, he just kind of shrugs as says I should just get used to it and accept it.
My volunteer activities at the hospital are focused on the post-operative floors” and not ER, OR, or critical care. I work covers four floors doing tasks such as disinfecting telemetry devices and stocking gloves in every room. It is very rare to see a male-nurse and the ones I have seen may have been there temporarily from their duties in the OR or ER while they are moving patients post-surgery. I did over-hear a nursing supervisor discussing the use of a male nurse to convince a patient to take a bath because the patient was refusing. If the patient was a man, perhaps he didn’t want a shower from a female nurse.
I have told the volunteer supervisor that I am available if a male patient didn’t want a female nurse to help them dress. I may look into training so I can get certified to help lift patients or do limited care. I had to decline a patient’s request to help him to the bathroom. I told him that I would make sure the nurse was aware and he waved me off and said the nurses were a pain in the ass.
While my bad experiences were trivial compared to most contributors to this blog, they still bother me 11 years later. As I age, I expect to be subject to more intimate exams and procedures and it is on my mind all the time. I am working with a counselor to cope and to focus on what is actually happening and not dwell on what might happen. PTSD has a pretty good hold on me and is not easy to ignore. That said, this blog has helped me to take a proactive approach and ask how and who delivers intimate treatment before it happens. So far, I have been lucky and not been in a position of having no choice in the matter.
EM
EM bless you for your efforts to make a difference. Trying to change the mentality in the medical world is an uphill battle. I think the problem is two fold, the industry has no need of change because most people seem to be fine with the status quo. And so many men just won’t speak up. I am going in tomorrow for hernia surgery. The surgeon said he would not use his surgical assistant because she is a female and working with all the people I have been communicating with say they have an all male team assembled as long as no one calls in sick. I am very impressed with them hearing me explain the complex PTSD that I live with and doing everything possible to accommodate. If enough people would speak up change is possible
PTSD is as is many medical disorders potentially treatable and symptom resolved. Don't accept the disorder as "untreatable". Don't give up the chance
to enjoy your remaining years. ..Maurice.
EM, the demographics of healthcare below the physician level are such that it would take a generation of specific effort to balance it gender-wise. It would need to start with career fairs directed at high school boys to encourage them into nursing & various tech programs. Regretfully, there is almost a complete void encouraging boys in any direction currently.
What the healthcare system could accomplish in a relatively short time (if they had the will to do so) is to train staff on avoidance of needless exposure and on basic professional conduct. Accepting the reality of current demographics is one thing. Accepting needless exposure or unprofessional conduct (you don't have anything I haven't seen etc) is something else entirely.
The lack of standard protocols is another issue that could be easily addressed if they wanted to. How hard would it be to expect all staff to pull a gown up from beneath a sheet in order to examine the abdomen vs fully exposing the patient by just lifting up the gown? Yet it is left up to each individual nurse or other staff member as to how they prefer to do it.
I agree. A patient who has PTSD should make this valid clinical diagnosis clear
to each and every clinician (physician, nurse, LVN and hospital administrator) since It is a valid clinical disorder and must be accepted as such and the
patient should be attended to with this disease as with every other purely medical or psychiatric condition. Any bit of ignoring this diagnosis is
clearly malpractice, "nothing more and nothing less". ..And cannot be legally ignored. ..Maurice.
Maurice.. even though you dont care yourself have you EVER brought up.concerns of the people on this blog to your female Healthcare providers? It doesn't seem like you have. Maybe if YOU brought up that YOU care it will get them thinking of the next guy. Cat
Where I get a monthly Foley catheter change there is currently both female and a male LVN. It is the reduction of Foley catheter removal and exchange PAIN which is of my concern and not the gender of the LVN providing the service (both genders attentive to my concerns). ..Maurice
“Why So Many Men Avoid Going to the Doctor” (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-so-many-men-avoid-doctors)
Not surprisingly, this article is written by a woman who is very willing to tell men what is wrong with us. Below are the reasons given in the article:
• Men don’t like being vulnerable
• Men worry about a bad diagnosis
• The “superhero syndrome” that states that men think of themselves as strong and that going to a doctor is a sign of weakness.
So, doctor avoidance is all the fault of wrong thinking males. Interestingly, there is absolutely no mention of modesty as an important issue. Like so many articles about this subject, the writer avoids mentioning male modesty because if she wrote about that she might be suggesting that the medical profession should do something about it, and she and other female providers are certainly not interested in doing anything to encourage men to become nurses, PA’s, x-ray techs, etc. because they like it fine the way it is.
Fields like law enforcement, construction, the military and many others have done a great deal to encourage women to enter formerly almost all male fields. Has the medical profession done anything similar to encourage males to enter the health care field? Not much that I know of.
Unfortunately, we are still in a situation where all we can do to protest this situation is to ask for accommodations or walk out before allowing our modesty to be violated. Of course, in some situations we may be too ill to leave so we are forced to accept the “gender neutral” care they force on us.
MG
Don’t like yo be vulnerable
Worry about a bad diagnosis
See it as a weakness
MG
MG, thank you for your article referral. In actual medical practice of patients, the role of family members or
intimate individuals of the patient can play an important
role in the "protection" of the patient from medical system
unaware or unethical behavior. Every patient, on entry, should have available the name and location for that individual to participate in the patient's decisions and care.
..Maurice.
MG, modesty considerations is a missing component as you point out but it goes beyond that to a matter of respecting the inherent dignity of male patients. Topping the list in my opinion is the practice of bringing female chaperones (by whatever name they give them....assistants that don't assist). Bringing low level female staff to just stand there and stare at the male patients is demeaning and dehumanizing. Why can't they see this? They would never bring a male chaperone in for a woman's intimate procedure or exam.
Next on my list is the lack of focus on minimizing exposure in terms of extent, duration, and audience. In the near term there isn't much that they can do about the demographics of healthcare, but they can easily address the manner in which they deliver care. But they choose not to.
Biker, what about the patient's assigned relative or personal companion to attend to the issue of a patient's communicative personal desires or acceptance or that of
a clinically non-communicative patient's known personal desires? These persons are part of a patient's "medical team". ..Maurice
Again I have little need to visit this blog, but this time to retract every disparaging word leveled at my PCP. Here's she's been deferential to my wishes ("it's YOUR body" she's said!)
After my 06/01/23 suicide attempt & while living in my car, she made special considerations for me by calling me into her office to let me know she was getting out of a bad contract in which a corporate medical group that funded her (& her physician associate) was attempting to micromanage her female Patient's reproductive options & that we could stay in touch through Facebook until she reopened at a new location.
For the benefit of their patients they REFUSE corporate funding & rely on their business degree training. Other patients lost her, as the corporation reneged on their promise to forward her new number so they could hijack her patients. (Those corporate bastards even called me claiming THEY were MY family clinic.
I know few people with that kind of class. After two great years with her, my body went awry, the knee spinal damage is permanent (no surgery for me, EVER!) & from June 1 2024 to about June 1 2025, I had 5 episodes in which I got angry at her. The second episode was the Tylenol overdose, after mouthing off to her, she told me that I'll come to find she's not like other physicians: "she's not giving up on me.
The 4th episode was after her only direct refusal of any of my requests, in which I told her if she disagreed with the contingency Cath order (as she claimed) she'd write a formal complaint to the hospital. My last meltdown occurred when my opiod drug test included the street drugs I had been tested for at the ER -- but only because DEA requirements changed -- she didn't even know. That last meltdown was the worst, my badgery & berating of her got way out of hand.
Maybe I shouldn't say, but at my last in person visit with her, she looked particularly cute in her outfit -- like an innocent kid, emphasis innocent, because she was. It stuck in my craw.
It hit me so hard that I put her promise not to give up on me to the test (not deliberately) for a year & she passed it with flying colors, & I put her through Hell. . At the blink of eye my whole outlook changed from the perspective of an angry, petulant, child, to a protective adult (she's 27 years my junior) Everything inverterted That moment, so many of my fears, worries & concerns just disippated, vanished into thin air. I still don't understand what hit me. I cried like a baby for 2 weeks.
I told her all this (I tell her everything) & I also let her know I'll never second guess her again. I can't believe this, it has a life of its own. I'm at peace.
Game plan, no more healthcare anyplace except calling her & keeping comfortable these coming months while I take care of loose ends.
My cataracts are so bad that the retinas are obscured, not visible. I don't give a shit if I go blind. I'm staying home, keeping out of trouble.
RC
Dr. Bernstein, yes a personal advocate could help in certain circumstances but that isn't always going to be practical. For routine matters it isn't even going to occur to most of us that we might need an advocate to help protect our privacy and dignity. Until we realize in arrears that we did need one.
There is another aspect of personal advocates that I learned the hard way many years ago. It was when one of my brothers had a malignant brain tumor. A family friend that was a nurse advised me early on that he needed an advocate to oversee the entirety of his case. At the time I didn't understand the what or why of it. Then when the radiation proved ineffective the brain tumor guy was done with him. He told my brother that he needed to get his affairs in order and sent us on our way. No followup or referrals. My brother's primary then only sent him to specialists for specific symptoms as they arose and each one only focused on their specialty. Nobody, including the primary care doctor, ever looked at him as a whole to see where it was spreading or advised us of what to expect going forward. We only engaged hospice the day before he died, and she was the only person in that entire 6 month journey that looked at him as real person. An advocate wouldn't have changed the outcome but certainly could have eased the journey.
Biker I want to start by saying I’m terribly sorry about your brother and in that scenario there are quite often many casualties in those type of situations. The one that passes and those left behind to suffer the loss.
I want to share an experience that I had just a week ago because it was so unexpected and I am still trying to process how and why based on all other surgical experiences I have had.
I have been living with an inguinal hernia for years now and because of past experiences I couldn’t allow myself to be subjected to any more of the humiliation that I have endured.
I few years ago I went to see a surgeon about having it repaired and tried to explain that due to past experiences I couldn’t have that kind of intimate care by females. My request for all male team was blown off and I was assured that there would be females in the OR.
Recently I tried a different hospital system and different surgeon to give it another try. When I met with the surgeon and explained that I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD and unable emotionally to have a woman expose and handle my genitals. he was very understanding and went to bat for me to see what he could do. He told me that his surgical assistant was female but he could do the surgery without her. He put notes in the system about my condition and request and told me he had very little control who gets scheduled in the OR but I should bring this up at the pre surgical appointment which I did. The nurse that was interviewing me said she would forward my request to the scheduling department and they should be contacting me. The surgeon told me if they determine that it was not possible we could cancel the surgery and no hard feelings.
I received a call from a gentleman who was head of the surgical floor and he seemed completely sympathetic and thought that he could make that happen. Needless to say I was shocked and elated.
Day of surgery arrived and unlike previous experiences with having my genitals shaved by a woman in pre OP the surgeon came into the room and did the shaving himself. Then I got a visit from the gentleman that made all the surgical team adjustments and he wanted to thank me for speaking up and standing my ground he said most men even if they cared would say nothing and endure the humiliation . I requested not to be knocked out before prep and drape and they honored that as well. That gave me the opportunity to see who was in the OR and exactly the extent of the prep. It was just as I thought due to the close proximity to my genitals they thoroughly cleaned my genitals which required a lot of manipulation, including lifting my scrotal sack to clean under it. As I laid there and realized that had I not made my request that would have been a woman doing that to me. I know that these women do this all the time and have become numb and desensitized to their actions but evidences and documentation have shown that it is not always pure and virtuous. To show how seriously, they took my needs and concerns when moved to PACU I had a female nurse tending to me and she was instructed not to check the wound because of the proximity to the genitals they had a male nurse do that.
I know that this is not a new trend and the chances of receiving this kind of treatment again is probably slim to none. But it proves it is possible if put in the hands of people that possess empathy.and it saved me from the emotional wrecking ball.
Congratulations Jeff. I'm glad it went well.
I fully agree with Biker. ..Maurice
"Does any visitor to this blog knows what it is like to be a physician- male patient for female LVNs and RN.? I am and I do and I just see them doing
their "job" in the same manner as with any male patient. They make NO
effort to avoid "patient genital exposure" than with any non-physician male.
I have written about this on "distant" volumes of this bioethics blog in the past. ..Maurice."
Dr Bernstein have you been really attentive here & reading ng posts such as Brian's & others like his?
https://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2024/04/preserving-patient-dignity-formally.html?showComment=1715345298494&m=1#c3932108553932945997
That last post cutting & pasting Dr B's post & referring to Brian was mine. TC
Hello Jeff,
If Dr. Bernstein doesn't object it would be nice to know the name of the physician and the facility. If others live in the vicinity, we could patronize them to show our appreciation.
Take care.
Reginald
Reginald, I certainly approve publishing the names of professionals who find practical and humanistic values they are taking and I certainly recommend
those who hold opposite views to present to our blog topic posting their
views and reasons for opposition. We should all be interested in rationales
for both views. ..Maurice.
Jeff that's great news. Please who and where? Some people may want to travel. Also while in recovery did the female nurse get all pissy? When he checked the site was it all blankets pushed down or did he lower it enough to just check the site without exposure?
Those bitches need to know it CAN BE DONE. Please write to whomever you can thanking and letting as many as possible know it entirely IS POSSIBLE. If they care at all about their patients and not just $$$. Review the facility and dr everywhere possible letting g other men know they have a choice. Cat
...
Jeff,
Fantastic news! It shows that it is possible if you can find a surgeon who is caring. It seems that getting the surgeon to agree to adapt his team has been easier than getting the surgery department to cooperate. I am also amazed that the concern extended to the PACU and I have always wondered if a patient is subjected to another round of exposure after leaving the OR.
Was the facility a big hospital or a smaller surgical center. As I have related, I have always had better luck with my requests at a smaller surgical center where they do not want to miss out on the income from the procedure.
I am very happy for you that your wishes were honored and you didn't have to endure the fight for your wishes as it gets very tiring and is stressful.
I have been thinking of offering a "volunteer" bonus out of my own pocket to get male personnel should I need surgery in the near future. Once in a room, I will insist on certain protocols such as remaining covered during catheter removal or ask to do it myself.
One interesting thing I have observed during my volunteer shifts is that I am way more diligent on respecting the patients' dignity while stocking gloves and gowns in patients rooms than the medical staff or house keeping crews. In addition, my hospital has shared rooms and the roommates families don't seem to give a flip about barging into the rooms. I never enter a room if medical staff is in the room and I am very careful not to walk in if the patient is exposed. I make a beeline right to the supplies and keep my focus away from the patient. I have only been in a shared room twice and did not like it due the lack of privacy.
I am feeling fairly positive about the nurses in general although it really get tiring to continue to see FB posts demeaning men. A recent post showed a
window sign that stated "Relax, I am a nurse. I have seen smaller". I have to remind myself that there are millions of nurses and cna's and the posts are limited to a few hundred individuals.
EM
To all and in response to questions asked by Cat,Reginald and EM. The facility I had this done at was Winchester Medical center, a large hospital in Winchester Virginia. It Is part of Valley health hospital system which is very large in the Shenandoah Valley.with multiple hospitals.And my surgeon’s name was Charles Hyre . I responded to the survey sent to me with glowing reviews and in a separate email expounded on how well they responded to my specific needs in a climate that is all about speed efficiency and profits. As far as what actually happened in PACU I was still a little bit groggy from the anesthesia but the surgical notes from the PACU nurse said she did not check the surgical site do to patient’s request for no female to expose that area. And it was checked by the male CRNA To Cats question if she got pissy I can’t say but I would assume that if not she probably thought how ridiculous my request was because she sees penises all the time and she couldn’t care less. My thoughts about that is her feelings about it don’t matter it’s the patients feelings that count. What ever moral compass she operates under and the degree of her numbness and desensitization is of no concern to me. I consider that condition to be what I call a seared conscience. Because I can guarantee you when she first started her career she was as uncomfortable as the patient. Which means an emotional metamorphosis took place. I think they know that what they do is completely foreign to the sensitivities of the average person. Many except it as a necessary relinquishing of a very sacred part of your anatomy to be shared with very few of the opposite sex. And for some like me it is a bridge to far. Their need to normalize the way they do things is is based solely on the imbalances of genders in the field. My request coming from a man is what makes what they did for me so incredibly amazing. A woman wouldn’t have near as much of an issue obtaining an all female team but if a woman doesn’t make a specific request she can just as easily have males on her surgical team because the gender neutral mentality is so deeply ingrained in their culture. What I find as a stark reminder of the hypocrisy in their system is when I’m leaving their facility and enter the public corridors I always manage to pass the public restrooms that are clearly marked men’s room and ladies room? Considering that very little exposure occurs in a public restroom they still find a need to offer each sex the comfort of relieving themselves amongst their own.
Jeff,
A comment relating to the numbing and desensitization of medical staff concerning nudity also seems to apply to sights and sounds. I have only been volunteering for about a month and I get somewhat unsettled when it comes to things that patients say or when they are moaning or crying in pain. Last shift, a man was yelling repeatedly about "Someone get me my dinner!". This went on for some time with a nurses station directly across the hall and I didn't see anyone check to see what the issue was. I was also in ICU with a patient moaning in pain very loudly within easy hearing of a nurses station and no one left the nurse station to check in. I guess after time this becomes a normal occurrence to staff, but it is very uncomfortable to me.
EM
Is all the ups and downs and ins and outs of this blog topic all fully covered and nothing much more to add or subtract? Does summer vacation time
wipe out all the 'ins' and "outs"? Or in Winter, Fall, Spring and Summer, there are still are points of view" or personal experiences that require public ventilation?
..Maurice.
Where is our writing participants? Yes, we have daily readers..but
is everything "said" that needs to be "said'? ..Maurice
Dr. Bernstein, until the norm is patients feeling like they are being treated with respect and their dignity protected, there is going to be more to be said.
The demographics are what they are, and the nature of healthcare is often going to be uncomfortable or embarrassing for some patients. It is what it is in that regard, but patients should feel that the staff did what they could to minimize that discomfort or embarrassment. That in turn is a function of training & culture within healthcare organizations.
I have an afib ablation coming up soon and the cath lab coordinator, an RN called me to go over my instructions. She was very detailed and when she was done she asked if I had any questions. I posed a couple technical/procedural questions which she answered and than I posed a who/where/when question about the groin shaving. That question she couldn't answer because. She said she doesn't know how it is done. She knows everything else about the procedure and I am sure it was her experience as a cath lab RN that got her into the coordinator role, but now she knows nothing about groin shaving and expected me to believe her. I will be getting another call the day prior and will ask again then.
Biker, my best wishes for your upcoming and clinically important and usually successful clinical procedure. It most often accomplishes its needed goal. ..Maurice.
Good evening.
Best of luck with your afib ablation Biker. You're right about that nurse. If she knows everything about the procedure, she KNOWS how, who, & when the shaving part is done. She just doesn't want to tell you because it's is most likely a female healthcare worker & she doesn't want you to back out of the procedure.
Have you considered a Covr garment for privacy? This procedure is tailor made for one of their garments. Keeps you covered & gives them the access they need for shaving & catheter placement in the femoral artery.
Good luck! Look forward to seeing you back here sooner rather than later.
Best regards,
NTT
https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/the-care-deficit-we-need-more-men-in-health-care This is a link to an article that is directly related to my post of July 17th. If only the medical profession would heed the message.
MG
Hello MG,
Thanks for the great article. I hope someone in the medical field is listening/reading. I've written to CMS (Medicare) and Anthem re this situation. In my Anthem note I also mentioned STEM. That was 2 years ago - no response. CMS was back in 2019 - also no response. The Anthem note follows:
"16 Aug 23
The following comments are concerns that I have from my years utilizing Anthem’s services. I'm concerned that there are so few male nurses at in health care. For intimate male care, it is very disconcerting to be told that there is no male nurse available. I'm amazed that Anthem doesn’t lobby government to support the recruitment, education, and retention of male nurses. A government-sponsored program called STEM was instituted years ago to enlist women into the fields of Science, Tech, Engr and Math. Where is the support for enlisting males into nursing? If any industry had a ratio of 9 males to 1 female, there would be deafening cries of discrimination, equity, etc. Nevertheless, a ratio of 9 females to 1 male in nursing goes along with no outcry. What is Anthem doing to correct this situation? What amount of time, talent or treasure Is being allocated to addressing this inequity. If you are doing nothing, you may be contributing to a reason that men eschew health care. Many males refrain from necessary doctor or hospital visits because they would prefer a male nurse. Many men, as well as women, do desire to have their dignity respected, especially during intimate exams and procedures. This Is almost Impossible for males when a male nurse is unavailable. From a purely economic standpoint, much revenue may be being lost to Anthem because of this. Shouldn't Anthem be in the forefront of a movement to enlist males into the nursing profession? Why wait to follow some other health organization. Why not be the first?
Regarding the need for male nurses, Bloomberg printed an interesting opinion article. Please see: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-04-06/more-male-nurses-will-help-ease-the-us-nursing-shortage#xj4y7vzkg
Additionally, Dr. H.M. Chochinov has written a great article titled Why is Being a Patient Such a Difficult Pill to Swallow? (See https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/why-is-being-a-patient-such-a-difficult-pill-to-swallow/article_2e751284-f1cb-5970-82e4-cfbef9990d84.html) The article centers around the PDQ (Patient Dignity Question). This appears to something that might be beneficial to Anthem in its quest to provide care to the marginalized and those that seek gender-concordant care. I do believe that what I've written above might indicate that male patients could be considered a subset of the marginalized. Hopefully, Dignity, as a core value of Anthem, is not just a buzz-word."
As I mentioned above, I haven't even received a "thank you for your comments" from Anthem. I guess they don't respond to "ridiculous" comments like mine. Let's hope that the Med Econ article generates a better response.
Take care.
Reginald
MG I read that link and agree that a greater effort needs to be made to encourage more men in the medical field. There is very minimal growth of men in the nursing field but at the same time more and more women are becoming doctors. There’s a lot of evidence out there that this is a problem for many men, there are those men that are very vocal about their displeasure about the treatment they receive and I would love to know how many men that endure it without a word.
Whenever an institution or company is not prepared to address an issue that they know is wrong (there are many because of desensitization think there’s nothing wrong with it)as long as they are not going to suffer a loss or be held accountable. I think that it is something they have done a very good job of avoiding and refusing to acknowledge that there is any issue. It is completely obvious that the imbalance of males in the field is what perpetuates the never ending humiliation and loss of dignity to continue. Many that have never experienced the way things are done especially in a hospital setting are completely caught of Guard and feel as though they have been ambushed. For me it was an ever increasing amount of total humiliation as the nature of the procedures became more and more involved. Some of the exposure was unavoidable but a lot of it was unnecessary exposure and I never knew why a woman would do that to me or anyone else? They destroyed any trust I had in them and of all places that put you in a position of total vulnerability is just plain cruel. I have found through therapy the need for that driven by them that experiences that go back to childhood has left me with complex PTSD It was their treatment that drove me off the rails. They knew it when they saw my reaction and they couldn’t care less. You hit a point in their care when you cease to be a person and become a billing code On their conveyor belt
Reginald we sent our comments out at the same time and I found your effort to wake Anthem to the issue admirable. I also have them as my insurance carrier and I was encouraged to do the same as soon as I can think what to say. This seems to be such a hard topic for them that avoidance is the preferred path to take. It seems like there is no entity out there that wants to hear it because from their perspective there is no benefit. Unless you consider the patient which generally is at the bottom of the totem pole
Reginald Part 2
I believe that there is a simple solution to the inequity I’ve portrayed above. Place a bullet point on P103 of Medicare & You 2019 which reads “Same gender care will be offered (and provided, if desired) before any Medical Procedure”. (An asterisk may indicate that “same gender” applies to all medical staff members involved in the procedure, not just the physician.) This will alert medical providers to the full meaning of same gender care; and, that same gender care must be offered and provided, if the patient so desires. Furthermore, the patient will not be required to endure the embarrassment of having to ask first.
I understand that naysayers will abound. When hand disinfectant was advocated for each hospital room, critics predicted financial ruin. Hand sanitizers now appear in each hospital room; and, they’re mandated for use by all caregivers upon entering the room. Similarly, when wheelchair accessibility was mandated in public places, some thought compliance was impossible. Today, virtually all public buildings in the US are handicapped accessible.
Hospitals and medical offices will exclaim that male RN’s and techs are not available. The retort is, “Encourage your feeder schools to recruit more males”. The UK has been successful in attracting males to nursing. Over 10% of their nursing staff is male. (See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-145183/More-men-work-hospital-nurses.html#ixzz4ugrFCTbL.)
CMS could be in the forefront of a similar US program.
I approached the OIG because my military experience taught me that the IG was the advocate for the grunt. He endeavored to right wrongs and tried to place a check on the balance (or imbalance) of power. I’m hoping that your office can assist in a similar fashion. CMS initiated the Bundled Payments Initiative to assist beneficiaries with health costs. Surely, a similar initiative can be instituted for truly same gender care for men.
As a final point, I’d like to emphasize that I DO NOT feel that female health care professionals are inferior or unqualified. I have no “axe to grind” with the health care industry. I do, however, feel that men are entitled to the same dignity and modesty afforded women beneficiaries of CMS by receiving same gender accommodations at every phase of their care. Additionally, I am not alone in my desires for same gender nurse and tech care. I would be happy to have my acquaintances, from around the country, e-mail you with their “stories” – some are extremely painful. Please let me know if it is possible for CMS to advocate for the accommodations I’ve presented above and/or, if you’d like other individuals to express their feelings on same gender care. "
Jeff, I encourage you and the other posters to continue the effort. Change is possible.
Reginald
And DON'T LET THE GOVERNMENTAL POLITICS OF THESE DAYS CHANGE YOUR FEELINGS, AS A PATIENT. ..Maurice.
I know that I am being repetitive, as this is the third time in recent weeks that I have written about this topic, but I think it once again shows us what modest male are up against. In the New York Times (August 25, 2025) there appears an article entitled “What Does It Take to Get Men to See a Doctor?” While the long (23 minute read according to the Times) article contains some interesting ideas it shares two commonalities with most articles I have read on this subject. First, it is written by a woman (Dr. Helen Ouyand). Second, it makes no mention of the male dignity and modesty violations we are so often forced to deal with as we are faced with the huge preponderance of females in most areas of the medical profession. I truly felt discouraged after reading this because I had hoped for at least some mention of the male modesty issue. I am very concerned that until many more medical practitioners and commentators are willing to recognize the importance of male modesty that no real change will take place.
MG
To MG 👍
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